This week, I’m thrilled to be joined by the wonderful Sebastian Nothwell, author of queer historical and fantasy romances including Oak King Holly King, Tales from Blackthorn Briar, and, most recently, Fiorenzo.
In this episode, we’ll dive into:
Plus, lots more including Sebastian's 3 indie book recommendations to add to your TBR. So, if you like your books with a healthy dose of hurt/comfort, catharsis, and queer themes and characters, tune in now! Listen Here:Show Notes:
Here are all the links included in this episode.
About Sebastian:
Sebastian Nothwell writes queer romance. When he is not writing, he is counting down the minutes until he is permitted to return to writing.
He is absolutely not a ghost and definitely did not die in 1895. You can find out more about Sebastian on his website. Read the transcript:
Kay M. Weston: Welcome back to Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. I'm really excited to be joined today by Sebastian Northwell. Sebastian writes queer romance. When he's not writing, his counting down the minutes until he is permitted to return to writing. He is absolutely not a ghost and definitely did not die in 1895.
Thank you so much for coming along to chat with me today. I've been so excited to have you on the podcast. I think I first heard about your books through the Indiverse Book Awards, and congratulations for being nominated in three categories, and we'll come back to that in a little bit. That then led me to your Instagram channel, which is so much fun! I don't think I've ever seen an Instagram channel like yours. It's a great way to get people sort of interested in, in what you write. Sebastian Nothwell: Yeah, it's a very Tumblr approach to Instagram. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, and then obviously, I found your podcast that you host along with a group of amazing indie authors, but before we get into all of that, could you please start by just introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about the books that you write? Sebastian Nothwell: I am Sebastian Nothwell and I write queer romance in the historical and fantasy subgenres. Kay M. Weston: Wonderful. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the books that you've released already? Sebastian Nothwell: So, my latest book is Fiorenzo, which is a sword-crossed, class-crossed, high-low fantasy romance in a setting inspired by 18th century Venice, and the challenge for that one, for me, was how much hurt/comfort can I get in one book? It turns out a fair bit. And my other fantasy book is Oak King, Holly King, which is a Victorian Fae mashup where a Fae warrior receives a death sentence in the form of being declared the Oak King, and in seeking out someone who can help him survive it, he finds an unassuming Victorian clerk who doesn't believe in the Fae. So, naturally, they kiss about it. Kay M. Weston: Just to put you on the spot, because I like doing that, can you use just three words to describe what readers might expect if they were to pick up one of your books? Sebastian Nothwell: Does hurt/comfort count as one word because of the slash or is that two? Kay M. Weston: Yes, I'll give it to you. Sebastian Nothwell: So, it's hurt/comfort, catharsis, and I guess the third one's just queer, honestly. Kay M. Weston: Brilliant. So, what drew you to writing Victorian historical romance and also fantasy romance? Sebastian Nothwell: With the Victorian historicals, I was reading a lot of Victorian literature and wanted to see more folks like me in it, especially when I kept coming across queer themes and queer subtexts that never quite made it to text for, you know, obvious reasons for being written in the Victorian era, but I wanted to kind of respond to that in a more explicit fashion, and then I branched off from that into fantasy romance with a strong historical grounding because it was a way for me to kind of compromise my distaste for world building and my desire for queer normative settings. Kay M. Weston: So, you really hate world building? Sebastian Nothwell: So, it feels like a cop out to say I hate bad world building, but like, sorry, quick tangent. In the dating scene, I match with a lot of nerds for obvious reasons, and there was a pattern for many years where men would not stop explaining Dune to me on first dates. So, I finally read it, if only just so I could start saying, I've read it, you don't need to explain it to me, and I can see why it has such a following, but I also think, with a good editor, it would make a really compelling short story. Like, the level of worldbuilding that is in Dune is more suited to, like, a tabletop roleplaying game sourcebook than a novel, for me, personally. Kay M. Weston: Okay, I'm with you. I haven't read it. I've sort of glanced at it and it doesn't appeal to me at all. Sebastian Nothwell: There's a lot of really interesting ideas. I just don't know that they're developed in a direction that I find enjoyable. Kay M. Weston: Okay, fair enough. So, would you say then that your books are obviously much more character driven, without the focus on the world building initially? Sebastian Nothwell: Much more so, yeah, and I think that's also kind of a feature of the romance genre in general because it's all about two or more people twining their lives together and you kind of have to focus on their characters in order to make that believable, if that makes sense. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, absolutely. I honestly love books that are character driven, where the characters are created first before the plot. To me, it makes it so much more engaging if you can really root for that character. You almost don't give a shit what happens to them, just as long as the character themself is great, that's fine. Sebastian Nothwell: Very much so, yes. Heartily agree. Kay M. Weston: Yeah. So, where do you get the inspiration then for your characters? Sebastian Nothwell: It's like the old saying goes, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a queer romance, and I'm at the point where basically, if a new idea pops into my purview, if it's like reading nonfiction historical, because I'm very predictable, or through just like seeing a documentary, or going and visiting a museum, it's looking at these cultural contexts and thinking, how do I be gay in it? And just kind of building a story around that. Kay M. Weston: That's the best way to start a story. Is there a character in your books that you most relate to, and why? Sebastian Nothwell: To paraphrase comics artist Bill Watterson, all of my protagonists are half me. So, it's kind of, whoever the main characters are, there's part of me in all of them and then some of the side characters as well. Kay M. Weston: That's great, so anyone reading feels like they get to know you a little bit better as well, that's awesome. Sebastian Nothwell: Oh, that's dangerous. Oh dear. That said, I find Aubrey Warren of Mr. Warren's Profession was particularly cathartic to write, because he's a working class Victorian man who's trying valiantly to struggle his way up the ladder, despite the fact that the ladder itself is an illusion, and there's really no way up it, and I wrote that while I was working boutique retail and surviving on food stamps. So, it got a little bit more personal than perhaps some others did. Kay M. Weston: But I bet it pays off though. I bet it comes across really well in the writing. Sebastian Nothwell: I can hope so. I only hope so. Kay M. Weston: So, jumping back to your Indiverse Book Award nomination, how did it feel to have Fiorenzo nominated for those three categories? I think they were most memorable first kiss, most cinematic writing, and most interesting fictional world, which is really interesting for someone who doesn't like world building. Sebastian Nothwell: I think in that category in particular, I benefited from most Western fantasy books being based on kind of a cultural idea of medieval England that may or may not ring true to actual history. So, even just going slightly eastward into Italy, everyone was like, I've never seen this before! And I'm like, I can almost guarantee you have, because Venice is real and is still there. Kay M. Weston: So, do you really love to sort of dig deep in the research then when you're writing historical? Sebastian Nothwell: I really do. It's the only way I get any confidence to write anything, historical or fantasy, is just being able to go to the source material and be like, okay, how does this work? Because like, for me, the frustrating part of fantasy world building is like having to invent an economy that makes sense and a culture that makes sense and a religion that makes sense, and everything being internally consistent and, for me, going back to actual history is kind of a cheat code for that being like, well, if I don't know how this fantasy wool industry would work, I can look at the historical wool industry and kind of just fold that in. Kay M. Weston: That's a great point. So, Fiorenzo is your most recent release, and it was the first time that I'd heard of a fantasy of manners romance. I actually had no idea what it was. So, for anyone else like me who has been living under a rock and doesn't know what that means either, could you give us a brief overview, please? Sebastian Nothwell: Sure. Fantasy of manners is fantasy that focuses less on wizards and dragons and elves and kind of those high fantasy elements and more on political intrigue, interpersonal relationships and kind of the social setting of that fantasy world. Kay M. Weston: Okay, brilliant, and does that tie in with the romance as well? Sebastian Nothwell: Very much so, yes, and it kind of goes back to the origins of the genre. I don't know if this is the actual first book in it, but one of the earliest examples I know of is Swordspoint by Ellen Kushner, which kind of combines renaissance England and Italy setting, and a plot which technically fulfills all the prerequisites of a category romance, because the plot kicks off and every turn of the plot is motivated by desire either thwarted or indulged. And so while it doesn't have as tight of a focus on what I think a modern romance reader would consider the two main characters, it does ultimately revolve around their relationship and ends with a happy for now for the both of them. It's also queer as hell and every character is bisexual until proven otherwise. A very enjoyable and influential read for me personally, and also significantly shorter than Florenzo, because frankly, Ellen Kushner is a better writer than I am. If you like a book that gets to the point, you'll love Swordspoint. If you like to go on a few meandering side quests where you just kind of live in the world for a while, try Fiorenzo. Kay M. Weston: So, out of the, I think seven, books that you've written and released so far, is that about right? Sebastian Nothwell: Seven is correct, yes. Kay M. Weston: Okay, brilliant. Which book or character, or both, just to give you as much choice as possible, are you most proud of, and why? Sebastian Nothwell: I am very proud of Florenzo, because it's my most recent book. So, it's like, I think the best example of where I am as an author right now, and I ventured out of my Victorian comfort zone in terms of world building and research, and I also achieved that personal challenge of as much hurt/comfort in one book as possible. But I am also very proud of two stories from Tales from Blackthorn Briar, which is the sequel collection to Oak King Holly King. Specifically the stories, Mr. Grigsby's Clerk and The Ballad of Daniel Durst, because those are both from the perspectives of side characters from Oak King Holly King, who are mortal and remain completely unaware of any fantasy elements that were occurring in the story around them. So, they're woven into this very magical fabric and they have no idea, and as a result, their perspective felt very fresh and authentic as a writing experience, and I think they turned out well. Kay M. Weston: So, in terms of what you're working on next or what you're working on at the moment, can you give us a sort of sneak peek into that? Sebastian Nothwell: Right now, over on my Patreon, I'm doing a transmasc historical romance inspired by Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. Kay M. Weston: I saw that earlier. I saw your post about it and I was like, that sounds amazing. I recently read Most Ardently, which is a sort of trans version of Pride and Prejudice, which I absolutely loved, and as soon as I saw yours, I was like, I need to read this. Sebastian Nothwell: Yeah, it's been a lot of fun just cause like, in the original text of Little Woman, you can project a lot of gender and sexuality feelings onto Jo March. Like that character in particular supports a wide variety of queer readings. Really, the only thing you can't say about Jo March is cishet. Like, it's the only thing that's not gonna fit. And then researching further into the biography of the author, Jo March is just a fraction of the trans masc swag of Louisa May Alcott herself. Just cause like, both in terms of rejecting heteronormativity and referring to herself in almost exclusively masculine terms, even as they related to family and the home, calling herself the father of orphaned children that she ended up taking care of, and also just in personal habits that read very incongruous to a 21st century reader when we think of 19th century American women. Like, Alcott went jogging every day for exercise. Like, in a full skirt and all, but still, like, jogging, a morning run every single day in Massachusetts in 1870 whatever. And it's, I think, a reality that certain readers of Little Women are not prepared to acknowledge. And so, rather than kind of say, Jo March is this one thing and this one identity only, and this is the take I have on it, it felt more authentic to be like, I am taking this character, inspired by this setting and this story, and saying, if this were specifically about the transmasc experience, I think this is the story that would result. Kay M. Weston: That's great. I love that you've dug so deep into the history as well. You haven't just taken a character that you wanted to sort of do that spin on. I think it's great that you've actually really delved into everything there. That's so cool. Sebastian Nothwell: It's the only way I have confidence to do any of it. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, I'm still working on the confidence thing. Sebastian Nothwell: I feel like that's kind of part of the author experience, honestly. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, I think especially when you're introverted, it's like so hard to put yourself out there. Everything you do, imposter syndrome's just screaming behind my head all the time. Sebastian Nothwell: Truly. Kay M. Weston: Where can anyone find your Patreon? Sebastian Nothwell: At patreon.com/sebastiannothwell. Kay M. Weston: Brilliant. So, when you're not writing, I know that you are also one of the hosts of the Right Here, Write Queer podcast, which I think started roughly the same time as this podcast, but you guys are so, you are so much better at putting things out than me. I'm like, once a month, once in a blue moon, and you're like, every week, and it's like, I just watch your episode numbers go up and up, and I'm sat here like, oh, I really need to get better at this. Sebastian Nothwell: I mean, to be fair, I've got eight other people working with me on that, so. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, true. I can cut myself a little bit of slack. Sebastian Nothwell: Yeah. Kay M. Weston: So, can you tell us a little bit more about the podcast, and what you all chat about there as well? Sebastian Nothwell: The Right Here, Write Queer podcast is a collective of indie authors discussing tropes and everything else bookish like libraries and beta reading and all the genres we love and all the everything we enjoy about reading and writing alike with bonus interviews of other authors in the queer indie scene. Kay M. Weston: That's so great. It's the whole reason I started this. It's just to sort of boost other indie authors. It was literally not for me at all. It was like, I'm introverted, what can I do? Hide behind a microphone. Sebastian Nothwell: Exactly, the beauty of podcasting. Kay M. Weston: And talk about other people's things. So, where can people find the podcast, and is it one episode a week? Sebastian Nothwell: One a week, every week. Rain or shine. Kay M. Weston: And it can be found anywhere, can't it really? Sebastian Nothwell: In your favourite podcasting app, whichever app that may be. Kay M. Weston: Brilliant. So, when you're not writing or podcasting and boosting other people's books and digging deep into research, what else do you get up to? Sebastian Nothwell: I have become something of a public menace at maritime museums. Kay M. Weston: That's the best answer that you could have given. Please elaborate. Sebastian Nothwell: So, I read Moby Dick way too young and it did things to my brain, and since then I've just been, there's something about age of sail media that I find really compelling and I think is very compelling to the queer experience in general and the trans masc experience in particular, just that kind of very homosocial setting where gender roles are kind of all over the place and yet strictly enforced somehow, and you kind of have to build your own society in a little boat on the ocean and every day trying to survive against the elements with your crew. Which I think lends itself to a very idealized view of what that might have looked like historically, but it does make boat media very compelling for me. Kay M. Weston: That's amazing. So, just sort of found family on a boat. Sebastian Nothwell: Yes! Do you love found family? Do you wish it was on a boat? Kay M. Weston: I've not read found family on a boat and now I really want to. That's your next challenge. Historical found family on a boat. You can do as much hurt and comfort as you like. Sebastian Nothwell: You really can. Ship surgeons get up to some stuff. Kay M. Weston: I love it. We're almost sort of coming up to the end. So, could you recommend three indie books that you love that you think our readers might like as well? Sebastian Nothwell: Absolutely. I can recommend Letters to Half Moon Street by Sarah Wallace, which is a cozy fantasy romance in a queer nominative regency setting told in epistolary format. So, it's all letters being written back and forth between the two heroes and also their friends. And on the complete opposite end of the vibe spectrum, I can recommend Backmask by OF Cieri, which is pulpy queer historical horror that dares to ask the question, what if backmasking was real and involved occult magic? So, it's kind of a mid 20th century historical setting, where everyone's kind of incidentally queer, but that's not really the point. The point is that magic is real and is being used to control the youth through music. And thirdly, I would recommend Blood in the Water by Carolina Cruz, which is historical horror romance, where a sailing ship is beset by a vampire and the two survivors have to contend with each other and maybe fall in love. Kay M. Weston: Ooh, that kind of ties back to what we were talking about just. Sebastian Nothwell: I just love boats. Kay M. Weston: How many of your books feature boats? Sebastian Nothwell: Shockingly few. The only one, I would say, Fiorenzo takes place in an island city state, so like, it's a nautical culture, but everything's happening on land, as it were. And then, Hold Fast. Kay M. Weston: With boats in the vicinity. Sebastian Nothwell: Boats in the vicinity, gondola everywhere. And Hold Fast is, how to describe, a historical romance thriller, where a Whaler inherits a baronetcy and then has to go live on land and is very sad about it, and also there's a bunch of other drama happening on land. I tend to take the boat men off the boats and put them where they're not happy and then figure out how to make them happy despite the lack of a boat. Kay M. Weston: That's brilliant. Would you like to live on a boat, is my question? Sebastian Nothwell: I've thought about it. So, in the New Bedford Harbour, there's a Nantucket lightship that is owned by the guy who owns the Pirate and Witch Museums in Salem, Massachusetts. Kay M. Weston: Oh, wow. Sebastian Nothwell: Yeah, every day he's just in the harbour on that beautiful little boat, living his best life, and I am beyond jealous. Kay M. Weston: That's so cool. I also get the impression from the last two books that you recommended, that you have a secret, well, maybe not a secret love, but maybe new to me, love of horror. Is that something that you might be thinking of writing in the future? Sebastian Nothwell: So, I wrote one horror romance, which is The Haunting of Heatherhurst Hall, and the thing about that one is it's more of an effort to, like, be deliberately scary, but in terms of, like, content, really the difference between that and all of my other romances is that I just labeled it horror, because, I think horror and romance have a lot in common as genres just because they are both so focused on human emotion rather than necessarily, like, plot. Kay M. Weston: Yeah. Sebastian Nothwell: And I think there's also, an expectation of you know what you're getting into with the genre. Like you go into a horror movie, you know there's probably going to be blood, there's probably going to be gore. Probably not everyone's going to survive to the end of it. Whereas like, if you go into romance, you know going in, it's going to be about building a relationship between two or more people and it's going to end in some semblance of happiness. So, I think you can both enrich horror by bringing in some romance elements because that kind of raises the stakes in an interesting way, and you can also enrich romance by bringing in some horror elements because, again, it raises the stakes, because will this end happily? I know it's supposed to, but I don't see how, and then you kind of get that journey. Kay M. Weston: That's great, and also, who doesn't want to fall in love when everyone's covered in blood? Sebastian Nothwell: Exactly! Kay M. Weston: So, just my final question, just as we're wrapping up, if you could recommend one of your books to someone who's completely new to you and hasn't read anything that you've written before, which one would you suggest that they start with? Sebastian Nothwell: I would start with Oak King Holly King, because I think it's got the best of both worlds in terms of historical and fantasy, and also, if you're not into Hurt/Comfort, Fiorenzo doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And I think the fantasy elements of Oak King Holly King make it more accessible than the more straightforward historicals like Mr. Warren's Profession and Hold Fast. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, okay. But yeah, if you do like hurt/comfort, just go straight to Fiorenzo. Sebastian Nothwell: Straight to Fiorenzo, that's gonna get you everything you need in one simple package. Kay M. Weston: Last question then, where can our listeners find out more about you and your books? Sebastian Nothwell: You can learn about upcoming events, find all my social media links, and sign up for my newsletter for three free short stories at sebastiannothwell.com. Kay M. Weston: Thank you so much for coming along and talking to me today. This has been absolutely great, and honestly, we've flown through the time. I don't want to stop talking, but I've run out of questions. Sebastian Nothwell: Thank you so much for having me on. This was a blast. Kay M. Weston: Yeah, thank you. It's been so much fun, and I look forward to the next Right Here, Write Queer podcast as well. Sebastian Nothwell: Absolutely, I look forward to the next Turn The Page.
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