Welcome to episode 18 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. In this episode, I’m joined by cosy fantasy author R.K. Ashwick, creator of the Lutesong Series and the Side Quest Row trilogy. Her books blend found family and hurt-comfort with high and low-stakes magical plot lines — think rival potioneers forced to work together, bards with haunted lutes, and multi-POV cosy fantasy stories wrapped in comfort and danger.

Tune in to hear R.K. Ashwick chat about:

• How she found her way into cosy fantasy
• How she balances high-stakes plots with comforting themes
• The inspirations behind her characters and storylines
• Her top cosy fantasy recommendations by indie authors
• What’s next after completing not one, but two trilogies this year
• & lots more.

If you love cosy fantasy worlds with heart, humour, and heaps of magic, you won’t want to miss this episode.
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Don't forget to like, subscribe, and check out the show notes for links to R.K.'s books, website and social media!

Here are all the links included in this episode.

• www.rkashwick.com
• R.K. Ashwick's Newsletter
• www.instagram.com/rkashwickbooks/
• www.tiktok.com/@rkashwickbooks
• Right Here, Write Queer Podcast
• ko-fi.com/turnthepage

Here are all the books mentioned in this episode: 

• A Rival Most Vial by R.K. Ashwick
• A Captured Cauldron by R.K. Ashwick
• The Stray Spirit by R.K. Ashwick
• The Spirit Well by R.K. Ashwick
• The Spirit's Curse by R.K. Ashwick
• Kit & Basie by Tess Carletta
• Phantom and Rook by Noah Hawthorne
• Call Forth the Moonlight by Z.M. Celestaire

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​Music Credit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SigmaMusicArt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

R.K. Ashwick is the author of two cozy fantasy series, The Lutesong series, and the Side Quest Row series. Her books feature rival potioneers, and a bard with a possessed loot trying to uncover a deadly, magical threat. 

When not writing, R.K. Ashwick loves to bake and draw. She lives in California with her husband and her cat, Leia.
(Yes, like Princess Leia.)

Kay M. Weston: Welcome to episode 18 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Today, I'm joined by the wonderful, R.K. Ashwick.

R.K. Ashwick is the author of two cozy fantasy series, The Lutesong series, and the Side Quest Row series. Her books feature rival potioneers, and a bard with a possessed loot trying to uncover a deadly, magical threat.

Before I hand over to R.K. Ashwick to introduce herself and tell us a bit more about her books, just a quick reminder to hit that like and subscribe button, whatever platform you're listening on, just to help this episode reach as many people as possible. And as always, any links mentioned will be included in the show notes so that you can go find the author's books after the show.

Hi R.K., thanks for joining us on the podcast. Just to get us started, can you introduce yourself and tell our listeners a bit about the books that you write?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, absolutely. So, I am R.K. Ashwick. I'm a cozy fantasy romance author.

I write both low and high-stakes, cozy fantasy with different levels of romance. So, the Lutesong series, for example, is higher-stakes with romance as a subplot, and the Side Quest Row series is lower-stakes with a heavier focus on romance.

Kay M. Weston: Okay, brilliant. So, what drew you then to the cozy fantasy genre in the first place, and what does cosy fantasy mean to you?

I think it means something different to everyone, so I'd love to get your take on that.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, that was gonna be, honestly, part of my answer is that it's different for everyone. I started out writing just fantasy and then discovered the term cozy fantasy and just leaned into it. I like both high-stakes and low-stakes stories. So, for me, I don't necessarily need my cozy fantasy to be low stakes, but for me, there does need to be a certain comforting vibe, a soft place to land for the characters, no matter what happens to them.

I think setting plays a really big part in kinda what attracts me to different cozy fantasy stories. But beyond that, it's so hugely varied because cozy vibes are so subjective.

Like, I've had people go, oh, Ambrose has a tragic backstory, therefore A Rival Most Vial isn't cozy. But for me, it absolutely is. Yeah, it's just so subjective.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I know what you mean because for me it's just, I don't know, it's that feeling that you get when you just feel happy to be in that world.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, it's a strange one. When you were talking about low-stakes compared to high-stakes, I remember thinking in A Rival Most Vial, and particularly in A Captured Cauldron, there's a real element of danger, I felt.

So, how do you balance then those cozy themes with the conflict and the higher stakes that are found in the books?

R.K. Ashwick: For me, I guess when I'm writing, if there's no element of any kind of danger, I get bored. I'm like, I need somebody to be a little bit stressed in this book.

But for me, it always like, it's sort of like the hurt comfort trope, right? If you're going to hurt a character, you'll want to comfort them in the end, and I think for cozy fantasy, there's a much higher ratio of comfort to hurt.

So yes, they could briefly be in danger, but if there are other characters comforting them and healing them, and if there's again, that soft place to land at the end that's really emphasized, to me, that's still cozy. Because I think if you take away any element of stress or danger, the story gets boring. You need to have a little bit of conflict and stress in order for them to then sink into their cozy little place at the end.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah. Do you have like a gateway author or book that got you into the cozy fantasy genre?

R.K. Ashwick: I grew up reading a lot of Tamara Pierce and Shannon Hale, which aren't necessarily cozy, but I feel like Diana Wynne Jones and Howl's Moving Castle, and just the vibe of like the Dealing with Dragons series, if anybody remembers that.

I think that. I leaned into that and there's a whole online debate on if Sir Terry Pratchett is cozy or not.

Kay M. Weston: Oh, I've not heard that, but I can see it now, yeah.

R.K. Ashwick: There's like elements. I mean I feel like every book could be different and I feel like his humour kind of lightens the stakes, like it feels different. But I guess those were my, like early gateways.

Then my contemporary gateway was definitely Legends & Lattes. I remember basically, not live blogging on Tumblr, but just putting out random thoughts being like, oh my God, they just discovered cinnamon rolls, on my Tumblr. It was just so cute and so different. So, I think that was like my contemporary gateway drug book.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, Legends & Lattes is mine as well. It was so good. I remember reading it and being like, wow, I've not read anything like this before, and now I love that cozy fantasy is everywhere.

So, would you say those books that you just talked about were very big influences on your writing style, or do you have any others as well?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, I would say those were the big influences on my writing style, though if I am writing something and reading something concurrently, whatever I'm reading will kind of leak into what I'm writing. So, I try to not be reading at the same time as when I'm writing, but I'm also writing all the time, and I do have to read. So, it's a weird cycle.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, I can relate to that. I remember the first time I started writing fantasy, I was reading Pride and Prejudice, and for some reason everyone was talking in such the wrong way as I was writing it. So yeah, I can definitely relate.

So, both the Lutesong series and the Side Quest Row series are trilogies. How do you approach plotting out a full trilogy but then keeping each book satisfying on its own?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, I didn't really plan out the trilogies, particularly for the Lutesong series. I started writing it, going, yeah, it'll be a trilogy, because that's what fantasy writers do, right?

I wouldn't recommend that to anybody, because then it just makes it harder to properly foreshadow things and kind of plan out, okay, here's the character arc for this book, but what is the character arc across the whole series?

So, I did it towards the end of book one. I started actually thinking about, oh, okay, what are book two and book three actually going to be? But I would recommend maybe planning it a little bit earlier than that.

In terms of keeping each book satisfying, I try to keep each story pretty much like self-contained so there isn't too much of a cliffhanger at the end, while still keeping the setting open for the next adventure.

It's also easier for me to keep it contained so I don't have to track a ton of details in between the books. Because, at this point I've been writing, on each series, for at least five years and so you just start forgetting things.

Unless you're making yourself your own Wikipedia as you go, things are gonna drop through the cracks.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah. And congratulations by the way, because the final book in the Lutesong series is now available, it came out this week, I believe. Without giving away too many spoilers, can you go into depth a little more on what readers can expect from this series in particular?

And just as an extra question, were there any particular challenges in wrapping up this series that you've been working on for five years?

R.K. Ashwick: Yes, okay. So, the Lutesong series, just as a very brief summary, it starts with The Stray Spirit, which is a higher stakes cozy fantasy set in a regency-esque world, loosely regency. It focuses on a bard named Emry who gets a forest spirit named Aspen trapped in his lute. Having a talking lute is not their idea of a good time, for either of them.

So, they go to Emry's ex-girlfriend Cal for help, and together they discover that the event that forced Aspen into the loot is a sign of a much greater disaster to come.

Then through the series, we followed the trio, that's Emry, Cal, and Aspen, as they gradually climb further into high society, as they make more spirit friends, as the world kind of changes slowly around them due to the events of book one.

Then The Spirits Curse, so that's the last book in the trilogy, and that just came out May 26th, it really focuses on Aspen and the spirits, and what their future looks like.

One of the biggest challenges of writing the last book, honestly, it was the middle of the book because I knew the beginning and I knew the end, and I was like, oh, this is my fifth book, of course the middle will just magically come to me. That was so incorrect of me. I was so wrong.

So, it took just a lot of passes and a lot of reiteration to figure out a middle section that really worked and emotionally resonated with everything else.

So, I'm happy, of course, with where it landed, but it was difficult getting there.

Also, I'm so sorry if you can hear my cat. She's being really chatty today.

Kay M. Weston: I can hear her. I actually thought it was a child.

R.K. Ashwick: No, I'm so sorry, it's my cat.

Kay M. Weston: No, don't be silly. Please do not apologize. I have two cats, a puppy and a turtle, and a child. My house is never quiet.

R.K. Ashwick: That's awesome. She just hopped up next to me, so she says hello to everyone. Her name is Leia, like Princess Leia.

Kay M. Weston: She's lovely. I saw a picture of her, and she looks very similar to my cat. I love the black and white cats, they're so great.

So, I haven't read the Lutesong series yet, I did download books one and two yesterday.

I came into your universe with the Side Quest R ow series when I discovered A Rival Most Vial last year, and honestly fell in love. That has very different vibes though, doesn't it, to the Lutesong series?

So again, can you tell us what readers can expect to find in that series?

R.K. Ashwick: Yes. So, for the Side Quest Row series, if you're looking for something more traditionally cozy, traditionally lower stakes, like Legends & Lattes or Cursed Cocktails, that's definitely the Side Quest Row series.

So, as you mentioned, it starts with A Rival Most Vial, which is about two rival potion shop owners, Ambrose and Eli, who have to work together on a lucrative commission for the mayor.

It is a dual POV, queer cozy fantasy romance with a huge found family in the form of all of the other merchants on the street. They take care of each other and they look out for each other, and they also play a huge role in book two when Ambrose is, this is not really a spoiler 'cause it's on the back of the book, Ambrose is kidnapped to brew an illegal potion and the merchants form a little rescue team to go get him, which is cozier than it sounds, I promise.

I realize the stakes are a little higher, but it's treated with a light tone, and then they also play a huge role in book three, which I'm currently writing, when Ambrose needs a very rare mushroom for a potion and they have to form an adventuring party to help him go get it.

So, that concept is, what if you took all of these shopkeeper NPCs and threw them into their own adventuring party. How poorly does that go?

Kay M. Weston: I love it because as I'm reading it, so, I'm a huge D&D fan, and as I'm reading, I'm like, oh, it just sounds like a crazy game, and it's amazing.

Can I just ask where the idea came from for both series actually, but we'll start with A Rival Most Vial?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, so for A Rival Most Vial I was going to bed, this was like five years ago at this point, I was going to bed one night, and I thought just of the phrase "rival potion shops", and I was like, oh, that's cute, I'll do something with that later.

And I didn't go back to it really for a couple of months, until I started figuring out, okay, if it's rival potion shops, obviously the potion shops are right across the street from each other. What are the personalities of the two shopkeepers, 'cause that's really like the crux of the whole thing. And how would that manifest in their appearance, in what potions they sell, in how they run their shop, in how they treat each other, and then that's where Ambrose and Eli formed out of that.

Then I was just off to the races after that point.

Then for the Lutesong series, for that, it was a little more intentional. It was, I wanna say, I think it was the 2019 NaNoWriMo, and if you're not familiar with NaNoWriMo, it was a national novel writing event where you would just be like, I'm gonna write 50,000 words in November.

And I really wanted to do it back in 2019, but I wasn't sure of what to write, and so they used to have resources for kids on their website where it's, oh, brainstorm an idea, write down just some things that you're really interested in right now. So, I wrote bards, caves, and possession dynamics from Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, because I had just watched Full Metal Alchemist and I loved the Greed and Ling dynamic.

So, then the prompts just said, okay, take some of those items and connect them together, what can you write about?

So, I was like, okay, a bard, a forest spirit, there's caves, the bard gets possessed. So, yeah, that's where it grew from. It was a little less spontaneous than A Rival Most Vial.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, NaNoWriMo was so great, but I know everything's gone pear shaped and they're no longer running, but it I understand that it helped a lot of people. I think I wrote my first iteration of a draft for, I think it was like the 2016 year. So, yeah, it was good once.

So, just going back to, you mentioned a few of the tropes from the Side Quest Row series. What are the tropes in the Lutesong series that people can expect?

R.K. Ashwick: For that one. So, there's Exes to Lovers in the first book. There is a social season in the second book, which I had a lot of fun writing.

There's a reverse found family, where Aspen attaches to Emry and goes, oh, I am a Kerik now I am adopting myself into your family, and the Kerik's go, okay.

I dunno. It's a little less trope heavy. I'm like literally staring at the book cover trying to think of others. Yeah, I guess those are the main ones.

Kay M. Weston: Okay, brilliant. One thing, obviously, I noticed with A Captured Cauldron is that it has an extra POV. So, you've got three point of view characters. How do you approach doing multiple character point of views?

And by the way, just to say, it's one of the books where I feel like it was done really well. So many times, I've read multi POV books where I'm like, no, I just want the main characters back and you feel like the other characters aren't as important, but with yours I was like, so invested.

So, how do you do that? How do you make sure that each character has their own sort of distinct voice and their own moment?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, it's a lot of, I know I said I didn't plan the trilogy, but I do plan a lot for each individual book. So, I actually have a spreadsheet where I write down, okay, here are the events that need to happen, here are the POVs.

So, for A Captured Cauldron, for example, we've got Ambrose, Eli, and the addition of Dawn. So, I map that out and I take a look at it before I start writing. I go, okay, I've got five chapters that are just Ambrose and Dawn, I haven't checked in on Eli recently, what does that mean in terms of his personal goals? How have I checked or not checked in on him, how can I add that? Does this scene make sense for it to be from Ambrose's POV or Eli's POV? Who is feeling stronger about the events that are happening and who does it make sense to get that interiority?

So, it's a similar process for Lutesong too, where in book one we started with Emry as the sole POV. Book two is Emry and Cal, and then book three is Emry and Aspen, which is very fun, adding a forest spirit's POV.

So, I do also try to keep in mind like, what is this character's unique background and how would that influence how they react to things, how they observe things, how they describe things. In Lutesong in particular, Aspen has picked up a lot of human mannerisms that they don't fully understand. So, they will do something, and another spirit, because there's a lot of spirits around them now, will go, why'd you do that?

And they're like, oh, I don't know, Emry always does it.

And just like, they're picking up things but lacking like context, and so that was always just like a fun thing to add to really show their perspective on things.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah. You're making me want to read that series even more now.

With Side Quest Row, the final instalment is coming, is it October this year?

R.K. Ashwick: Yes, that is what I'm currently planning on, is Draught for a Dragon, which is the last book in the trilogy, will come out in October.

Kay M. Weston: Brilliant, and what stage are you at with that now, and how are you feeling about bringing that series to a close? Two complete series in one year is quite an achievement.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, it's a lot. I don't know if I'll continue to do two books a year, just because you're pretty much constantly writing without a break, and I feel like that's definitely impacting me. Because I just finished The Spirit's Curse and I'm like, oh my God. I'm currently really deep into writing this one draft of Draught for a Dragon to go to Alpha Readers at the end of the month.

So yeah, basically from the frying pan into the fire, which makes it harder but it's also making me step back and be like, okay, this chapter, I don't wanna write it. Why don't I wanna write it? Does it not include all of the things that I really liked about this premise? How can I beef up that more?

So, I keep taking a step back rather than just trying to force myself to continue with the chapters. But my deadline is rapidly approaching. I am deep into it for another couple of weeks and then it'll go to my Alpha readers for several weeks and then I will be, so dumb, switching over to wrapping up this anthology story that I'm also working on.

Kay M. Weston: Oh, wow. I was gonna say, oh, you can take a break afterwards, but I guess not.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, I wish I could.

Kay M. Weston: Okay. So, a just for fun question. Across each series, is there a particular character in each series who you most relate to and why?

R.K. Ashwick: There's bits of me in all of them, but I think the ones that I attach to the most are Emry and Ambrose. Because Emry is an anxious little guy, and Ambrose, he's just such an introvert that I'm like, yeah, you're me, buddy in many different ways.

I feel like secondarily, Dawn and Cal have a certain work ethic that I vibe with, for better and for worse. Then Eli's very specific journey in book one really mirrored what I was going through at the time in book one. Don't read too much into it.

But yeah, it's just so funny how there's like little bits of the author in all of the characters, even if on so many levels, they're so different.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, after what you just said about your workload, I can definitely see the comparison with Dawn because she never stops.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah.

Kay M. Weston: And neither do you.

R.K. Ashwick: I swear I do have a break planned, it's just a little later.

Kay M. Weston: Your cat needs to sit across your keyboard, just to help you out.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, she really does. Honestly, she's so good at it.

Kay M. Weston: So again, just a fun question. If you could take a side quest of your own with any of your characters, who would you choose and what do you think the quest would be?

R.K. Ashwick: So, I was thinking about this and is it weird that most of it was shopping trips? Do shopping trips count as side quests?

Kay M. Weston: I would love to go on a shopping trip with the street, right?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, because I was like, okay, I would definitely make flower crowns with Aspen because Aspen would be able to actually teach me how to make a flower crown. I would wanna go shopping for potion ingredients with Ambrose. I would wanna go to a bookstore with Cal and Dawn. I would wanna go pet dragons with Eli, and then I just wanna go shopping on Rosemond Street.

I would be so intimidated by most of the shop owners, just 'cause they're so smart and nice and I would be like, oh no, I have a crush on half of them.

But yeah, being able to just look at all the pretty wands that Dawn makes and look at all of the nice potions on Ambrose's, like, that just sounds so nice.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, and the cupcakes as well.

R.K. Ashwick: Yes. Oh my gosh, the bakery in book two. Oh man, I would be standing at the counter for 20 minutes trying to decide what to get, and Viola would be like, please just make a decision, please.

Kay M. Weston: Wonderful. So, let's go back to your writing process a minute. We've already talked a little bit about how you approach a series. So, does that mean you take on that plotter role or are you more of a pantser or something in between? And how has your process evolved from the very first book you wrote to now, six books later?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah. No, I'm definitely a plotter as evidenced by the spreadsheet. In terms of how it's evolved, I feel like I am embracing draft zeros more and treatments more, and basically just trying to write in layers.

Rather than trying to like, okay, I've got my spreadsheet, I'm gonna open up a blank word doc, and then just write a full, complete, great chapter immediately, because then I just get stuck, and I move so slowly.

So, I've embraced writing, okay, let me first put down what the chapter is in paragraph form, and just make sure I'm thinking about the individual beats, how they transition from one to another. Maybe I'll think up some dialogue as I go, but that's not necessary.

Then after that I'll be like, okay, there is something on the page. I know roughly where I need to go. Let me write a draft zero, which is, okay, I'll write an actual sentence, but it'll be a bullet point. So, it doesn't feel legitimate, and I don't worry about formatting. If I write a crappy sentence, I just move on, that's okay.

Then I'll be able to get the shape of the chapter and the shape of the story from there, and then if I run into issues, I haven't laboured for six months over perfect prose. I can step back and go, okay, this isn't working. How do I re-outline, how do I adjust my spreadsheet?

Then I can go back in and either do a new draft zero, if I have to, which is what I'm doing with certain chapters in Draught for a Dragon right now.

Then I'll be like, okay, in two weeks’ time, I will at least have everything bullet pointed on the page. Then I'm gonna take the last three weeks to go back in and actually turn it into a functioning chapter that will give my alpha readers, like, here is the sketch of the story, like this is the shape of the story. Sure, there might be some clunky sentences and probably missing some character description or setting description, but I'm really looking for feedback on, is the shape of the story working? Do you get a sense of the character arcs?

And then basically using their notes, I'll refine that further from there, and then send it to my line editor.

Kay M. Weston: I'm honestly feeling so inspired right now because I am a pantser by nature, but it's not going well. It never goes well. Everything always goes completely wrong, and I've just listened to you say that and I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, that's genius.

R.K. Ashwick: It's all just in the pursuit of breaking it down into smaller, more manageable chunks and making it less intimidating, because I feel like if I am intimidated by what I have to do, I avoid it as much as possible.

And that doesn't really help when you're on a deadline and then it just becomes a stress cycle where you're like, oh no, now I only have five days, but I kept procrastinating because I'm intimidated.

Yeah, any way that you can give yourself as much of a roadmap as you need, 'cause I know for some pantsers, having too much of a plot makes them feel too locked in. So, some people they're like plantsers, where they're like in the middle, where they give themselves some sort of roadmap while also giving themselves enough leeway.

And then, yeah, I would always recommend just breaking it down into individual chunks.

Alexandra Rowland was just posting about this on Tumblr about, if you're feeling afraid of it, if you're feeling frustrated, don't turn away from it, be curious about the frustration and think about, okay, why am I frustrated? Why don't I wanna write this? Have I strayed away from my original idea? Am I not interested in it? Did I mess up something two pages ago that really changed the flow of the chapter?

Yeah, it's that whole concept of really just leaning into it and figuring out what's going wrong, rather than just running away from it.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, that's great. I feel like I'm in a coaching session right now. I feel like I should be paying you for this because it all applies so much to the situation that I'm in with my current draft, and I'm like, oh my gosh.

R.K. Ashwick: I hope helps it.

Kay M. Weston: It already is. I'm feeling my brain starting to click in the background.

R.K. Ashwick: Oh, good.

Kay M. Weston: It's been pretty still for a while, so it's definitely moving. So, thank you for that.
So, obviously you're an indie author and there's more to being an indie author than just the writing part, which obviously is a huge part, but then there's also all of the bits that come with indie publishing.

So, what do you feel has been the best and worst parts of indie publishing for you, personally?

R.K. Ashwick: I'll start with the worst, which I feel like a lot of other authors will echo, and it's definitely the marketing aspect. It is such a different skill from writing, from drawing, from managing, writing milestones, and it's a huge shame that writers, even traditionally published writers, have to be public facing and have to do the marketing themselves. I t's exhausting.

You have to keep track of social media algorithms. The algorithms want you to be on every single day. It takes time away from writing and drawing, and honestly, just life in general. It forces you to be on social media even if you don't wanna be there in the first place.

There is no reclusive author anymore except for, I guess, Stephen King, who does not need to be on social media. Any new author, they do, and that could even impact how you get a traditional deal, where they're like, are you viral yet? Which really just kinda stinks, 'cause it's not necessarily a reflection on the writing quality.

But I would say that the best part has been definitely getting feedback from readers. So, getting notes from them or getting even like fan art.

For A Rival Most Vial, somebody was like, oh, I was listening to the audiobook, and I threw these potion bottles. Literally, she was like making these clay potion bottles and sent them to me. So, now I have five potion bottles sitting on my shelf. It was wild. It was like one of the craziest days. So, that has been just absolutely incredible.

And I would say that another aspect is, because I'm self-published, I get to have a say in the cover design. I get to have a say in the interior art, in the chapter icons, and for a lot of that I have worked with other artists to do that.

So, for example, the Lutesong series, I worked with three separate artists to do different styles of art for book one, book two, and book three. So, there are interior illustrations in all of those, and that's been very cool to be able to like harness their style and get it into the book and work with others. It's just, I don't know, it has been very fun.

Kay M. Weston: That's great. I think you've said there what I think the general consensus is about indie publishing, that the best things are the freedom and the reader connection, but the worst thing is the marketing. Especially if you're introverted, which so many authors are, it's so difficult to just put yourself out there and, like you said, constantly put yourself out there, not just one time. You've gotta keep doing it. But yes, hopefully things like the podcast and other avenues will help.

R.K. Ashwick: Yes, absolutely.

Kay M. Weston: And one thing you said there about the artwork really just reminded me of something that I wanted to mention to you, which was the, I'm not gonna give anything away, but the secret code in A Captured Cauldron.

Because I got to the end and I read the note that said, did you see the code? And I went, no. And then spent the next two hours, sat outside in the garden, going back through, trying to figure out what I'd missed, and then eventually figuring it out, and felt so stupid because it took me ages. But when I eventually did, I thought that was the most brilliant thing that I've seen an author do to keep a reader engaged and just, well done, because that was great and it was so much fun to do.

But how did you decide to do that? Was that just a spur of the moment thing or did you have that in your mind before you were writing or did that come along with the story idea?

R.K. Ashwick: I'm so glad that you picked up on it because I was afraid people were gonna be like, I don't know and just ignore it. But I think as soon as I determined that there was a character writing something in code, and I knew that I was going to represent some of their work in the, and this is more of a pointer for people, as soon as I determined I was going to reflect some of their work in the interior illustrations, which I do myself for the Side Quest Row series, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to take advantage of it.

I have to put in a functioning code or puzzle into it, using the context clues from how Ambrose is decoding something. I won't say more than that, but yeah, I think as soon as I came up with that I was like, oh, I gotta do it. I gotta.

Kay M. Weston: I'm so glad you did. It was so much fun.

Okay. So, for our listeners who are always looking to discover new indie authors and new indie books, can you recommend three indie books that you think our listeners should pick up?

R.K. Ashwick: Yes, I've got a lot of recs. I narrowed it down to cosy fantasy romance, specifically.
First is Kit & Basie by Tess Carletta, that is an Achillean romance about an immortal in a small town.

For another, actually I think all three of these are Achillean.

Another one is Phantom and Rook by Noah Hawthorne. That is about an immortal and a witch finding each other again.

And then for a more contemporary, cozy fantasy involving a baby Griffin, there is Call Forth the Moonlight by Z.M. Celestaire.

Kay M. Weston: Wonderful. I have read Kit & Basie, and admittedly I'm a fan girl for that book, so.

R.K. Ashwick: Oh, it's so good.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah. But I'll definitely pick up the other two. That's great, thank you.

So, what are you working on now that the two trilogies are coming to a close? You mentioned an anthology, are you working on anything else as well?

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah. So, I am part of the Right Here, Write Queer podcast discord group, and we are working on an anthology, hopefully coming out in September. We haven't officially announced it yet, but I am trying to wrap up edits on that story. I would say short story, and I guess it's short, but it's 20,000 words right now. So, whoopsies.

And then after that, so like after the two trilogies wrap, I actually have an agent now, and so there are two projects that I'm going to start working on to pursue traditional publishing with that agent.

But I do want to remain a hybrid author and so I might try to enter some additional anthologies. Like, I know Indie Bites always has these really great themes. And I always look at other anthologies and I'm like, oh, that's so cool, but I don't have time. So, I don't know, maybe I will. I say I'll have time, I don't know if I will, we'll see.

But yeah, because A, I have to write these new books and B, the traditional process is so much slower, I don't really have like definitive, yes, this will be out at this time, this'll be out at that time, which is a little weird for me. Because previously, I've been working with such strict deadlines for myself to make sure that I'm actually getting these books out.

So yeah, it's a little nebulous.

Kay M. Weston: How does it feel to have to loosen your own sort of reins a little bit over your work with the traditional side of things?

R.K. Ashwick: I am hoping that at the very least I can use it to write a little slower, because I have been writing. Putting out two books a year is, I guess I like the pace in terms of, oh, maybe people won't forget who I am. But it's difficult and I don't know if I can keep doing that, and I feel like if these were to get picked up traditional, I would not be putting out two books a year. That's not really how that works.

So yeah, I'm hoping that maybe I can balance myself a little bit better because I do also, I do have other hobbies that I really like. I do. I enjoy drawing, and so I do the illustrations for Side Quest Row, and then I'm working on a video game, which I know we're gonna talk about a little bit later.

Just, I think trying to achieve a balance would be nice, and I have a full-time job.

Kay M. Weston: Oh my gosh. You've got irons in every single fire.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess there is always a risk in terms of giving up some of the control for traditional publishing. But hopefully, I can achieve a better balance maybe, and if these books don't get picked up, I can still pursue self-publishing for them to make sure they still see the light of day.

And I'm just hoping that the precedent that I've set in terms of how I style my self-published books, my hope is that if people pick up the next books for traditional, I can be like, hey, this is my brand, this is my style, I would like to continue doing this. So, I'm not really straying far from my original vision, if that makes sense.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, definitely. And just to go back to the anthology, I love that you guys from the Right Here, Write Queer podcast are doing that because I love your podcast.

So, I'm really excited to read the anthology. I didn't know that was coming, so that's really exciting.

R.K. Ashwick: Oh, yay. Yeah, we've been pretty quiet about it because we're all still in various stages of writing the stories, but I think we'll be talking about it pretty soon.

Kay M. Weston: Wonderful. Just jumping back then, you mentioned that you're a big video game fan and that you're working on a video game.

 I did read that in your, I don't know if it was another interview with you, that you would love for your books to extend into video game territory someday. I have this dream as well. So, yeah, what does that look like? Please give me some details.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah. So, yes, you're absolutely right in that in every opportunity I've had, I have talked about how much I love cozy gaming.

Like Stardew Valley, like Harvest Moon, even like Sticky Business. I don't know if you've ever played that, but yeah, I just I love those. Fields of Mistria is my current obsession.

Anyway, so I decided, I just had felt that bug for a while. It was like, oh, I really just like, I wanna make a video game that somehow links back to A Rival Most Vial.

So, I am currently working on a potion shop decorating game.

Kay M. Weston: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy.

R.K. Ashwick: I'm planning on having it hosted on my website. So, it's very simple. I really can't emphasize enough how simple it is because I only have taken one semester of computer science, and that was like {inaudible} years ago.

So, I basically don't know how to code, and I just started this in January. So, really, I want people to lower their expectations. There's no limits, there's no objectives. It's literally just like a dress up game but for a potion shop.

Kay M. Weston: I love that you're telling people to lower their expectations, but just in our conversation so far, not only do you write books, but you also draw, and now you are designing your own game, not that you've got someone else to do it, you are doing it yourself.

R.K. Ashwick: It's fun. It's fun and it's frustrating because I am a beginner and so I keep messing up stuff and not knowing how to debug and having to refactor everything when I'm like, oh, I built that totally wrong, so it doesn't scale, wonderful.

But I am slowly making progress. I've done a few functionality play tests and so now I am trying to add more assets to the game, and I'll just keep doing play tests to make sure that I didn't totally break the game. I don't have a release date set for it. It would be really cool if I could line it up with the release of A Draught for a Dragon in October.

But I also don't want to set that expectation, because I am totally new to this. So, we'll see, we'll see how it goes.

Kay M. Weston: Whenever it is released, I will be there.

R.K. Ashwick: Okay, great.

Kay M. Weston: Okay, fantastic. Just as a final question, where can our listeners find out more about you and your books, and stay updated on everything that you have coming up?

R.K. Ashwick: Yes. So yeah, speaking of marketing, you can find me on Instagram and TikTok @rkashwickbooks. I am far more active on Instagram because, frankly, I'm not very good at making all those videos.

I also have a newsletter. You can sign up for that on my website at rkashwick.com. Newsletter folks will get all the kind of ARC and pre-order and release announcements first. Then I'll also, I usually send one every month. Sometimes they'll have artwork, sometimes they'll have recipes. I try to make it fun and not constantly, like shilling stuff to the newsletter folks.

So, yeah, those are all the different ways that you can keep track of what I'm up to.

Kay M. Weston: Wonderful, and I'll put all of the links in the show notes when the podcast comes out so everybody will be able to find those really easily.

This was such a great conversation, thank you so much.

I'm really excited to see what you've got coming up next. I'm so excited to finish the Side Quest Row series and to dive into your Lutesong series. Yes, lots for me to read there, and lots for you to carry on with, you're going to be very busy.

R.K. Ashwick: Yeah, I am busy. Oh boy. But no, thank you so much, this was a lot of fun.

Kay M. Weston: Yeah, it was. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of the weekend. Bye.

R.K. Ashwick: Bye.

Kay M. Weston: That's all for this episode of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating and reviewing the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you're listening. It really helps others discover the show and our indie author guests.

If you'd like to support the podcast, you can buy me a coffee, well, actually a tea, over at ko-fi.com/turnthepage. The link, along with all the others mentioned in this episode, is in the show notes.

I'll be back on June 27th with more indie book updates.
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Until then, happy reading and keep turning the page.

Welcome to Episode 17 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast!

The podcast is back and better than ever after a short break — and this episode is jam-packed with indie book goodness!
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- Find out why recent changes at Amazon could impact your indie book purchasing.

- Discover my latest indie reads — from cozy fantasy escapes to steamy paranormal romances and fae fantasy adventures.
​
- Don't miss the reveal of our next incredible indie author guest (you won’t want to miss this one!).

Plus, I unbox a fantastic book box from one of our past indie author guests and spotlight the newest indie gems added to my TBR.

Featuring books by R.K. Ashwick, Josie Jaffrey, Alice Winters, Eliot Grayson, Tess Carletta, and more.

Here are all the links included in this episode.

• www.kaymweston.com
• ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com
• www.instagram.com/myendlessshelf
• www.youtube.com/@turnthepagepodcast
• www.silversunbooks.com
• www.josiejaffrey.com
• www.indieverseawards.com

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​Music Credit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SigmaMusicArt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Welcome to Episode 17 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. First off, I just want to say a huge thank you to absolutely everyone who tuned into episode 16 where I chatted with the wonderful Ira Ribbon about her fantasy book, The Demon of Elderstay. This is our most listened to episode, ever, on YouTube, which has just blown me away, and Ira too.

So, I hope you've all been reading her wonderful book or listening to the audiobook, which is out now.

Apologies also for the lack of episodes last month, but we are back now with a jam packed episode today covering all sorts of things from what I've been reading to some important news about indie books and a lovely treat I received from one of our previous guests.

I'll also be revealing our next indie author guest, so do stay tuned for that.

But as always, before we get into all of that, don't forget to hit subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on so you never miss an episode, and if you enjoy the show, please consider recommending it to your book-loving friends.

Okay, let's get comfy, crack open those TBR trackers, and let's dive into today's episode.

So, just a quick update from my writing cave before we get into the good stuff. I was really surprised and very happy to discover that my fantasy short story collection, Spellbound, had received a really lovely review over on Goodreads. I don't really hang out there much anymore, but I did happen to stumble on a review left by a reader back in February.

It was so sweet and to read that I'm an "author that they'll be keeping an eye on", which is a direct quote, hopefully in a good way and not in a Joe Goldberg way, it was just so humbling, and the little girl who used to dream of being a writer someday really shed a tear over this review. So, thank you to that lovely reader.

If you would like to read Spellbound, it's a collection of 10 super short fantasy stories and flash fiction. You'll find everything from vampires and werewolves to supernatural speed dating and Christmas in the underworld. It's 99 pence, or roughly 99 cents, I think pretty much everywhere now. It's available in eBook only just because it's really, really short. But if you'd like to check out what I do and you have sort of an hour-ish to spare, I'd love for you to check that out.

I am continuing to work away on editing my paranormal romance novel, which I'm still hoping to release later this year, so more on that as soon as I can. For now, though, you won't find me on social media a huge amount as I'm just trying to focus on writing alongside podcasting, work, family life, and raising the puppy.

I have also restarted my blog though, so feel free to check that out if you'd like. I post probably once a month or so. So, there's currently a poll up that you can vote on for your favorite paranormal creature. You can find that at kaymweston.com, so that's K-A-Y-M-W-E-S-T-O-N.com. I'll have the link for you in the show notes.

This is the part of the podcast where I like to talk about some topical news, if there is any, and actually, since the last episode, there's been some pretty big news that's going to affect both indie authors and indie book readers. The two biggest things are centered around buying books.

So, the first is that Apple have now been ordered by US courts to allow apps to link to external payment systems that fall outside of the app store, the US App Store.

So, it used to be that every purchase made in an app downloaded from the app store would have to go through Apple, who would charge either the company or the user, or perhaps both, an additional fee, thus increasing costs sort of for everyone.

For now though, unless Apple can appeal the ruling, which they are trying to do, that's no longer the case.

So, Amazon Kindle app users, for example, should now see a 'buy book' button on the app, which previously you'd have seen a message that said something like, ' this app does not support purchasing of this content', and you'd have had to go to the Amazon website to purchase the book instead.

Patreon and, I think, Spotify have also updated their apps. So, if you're supporting authors on Patreon or purchasing books via Spotify, you should now be able to manage that in app.

The other big thing is going to affect print books purchased on Amazon.

So, Amazon recently announced that they were cutting author royalties on print books that are priced below 9.99 US dollars from 60% to 50%, which is a fairly big decrease really.

So, to combat this sudden drop in royalties, you can probably expect the cost of most paperbacks on Amazon to now jump above that 9.99 mark.

It's probably not a huge deal for those of you who read mostly digital or those used to paying trade paperback prices, which are already much higher, but it's just something to bear in mind that the author isn't really going to be making more money by raising the price of their book, they're just gonna be reclaiming some of that same royalty rate.

This is another reason why my book, Spellbound, is not available in print. It's far too small to be charging over 9.99 for it. So, there's literally almost no point, I'd make no money. So, a few changes there to both digital and physical indie book purchasing, just to be aware of.

Okay, so now onto my reading update. In the last couple of months, I've actually done some reading. Not loads, but more than I think I usually do. So, I finished, A Captured Cauldron by R.K. Ashwick. This book was so good. I love a good cosy fantasy, as regular listeners will know, and this book really delivered.

The cast of characters are multifaceted, diverse, and just intrinsically charming, and there's just enough danger and tension to really drive the plot forward with a boatload of magic to boot.
​
It's also one of the first books with more than two POV characters that I actually enjoyed. Every time this has happened before in another book, I've really hated the additional POVs. But in this one, I really liked it. I liked that it built off the dual POV in the first book by adding a POV and relationship for one of the secondary characters.

Sorry, abbreviating there, for anyone who doesn't know, POV is point of view.

I don't want to give away spoilers if you haven't read the first book, so I won't say anything more about the plot, but there was a really fun secret code in this book that I honestly did not spot. I got to the end and there was a page that was like, 'did you solve the secret code?'

And I was like, what secret code?

So, I scoured the pages quickly and knew it had to have something to do with the set of illustrations, that are really pretty and really add to the story, that are just in the middle of the book. But I just wasn't sure what to do. I felt so dumb. So, I did some digging online and I think someone in a Goodreads review mentioned which particular illustration it was that I was meant to look at.

So, I went back and spent like an hour in the garden, in the sunshine just trying to decode this clue. I'm embarrassed to say that it took me ages, but it was a lot of fun and a really genius idea by the author just to keep me engaged right at the end of the book.

Once I found that code, I was then directed to the author's website for a little surprise. I won't say what as it's a bit spoilery, so you'll have to read the book if you want to find out, which I'd highly recommend anyway.

And a quick note that this is book two in the Side Quest Row series, so you will need to read book one, which is A Rival Most Viral, first to understand what's going on and who everyone is.

So, that book was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to reading the last book in the trilogy when it comes out, as well as exploring this author's other series at some point soon as well.

I also read Fake Dates and Fanged Mistakes by Alice Winters. This is a paranormal m/m romance between a vampire and a werewolf.

This isn't my first Alice Winter's book, and it delivers the author's same humor mixed with danger and romance that makes her books so much fun to read. The book centers around Julian, who's the son of an alpha werewolf and Cassimir, the leader of the vampires.

Caught in the middle of a feud between the vampires and werewolves, and with someone else widening the divide by murdering both sides, Julian concocts a plan to fake date Cassimir to show both sides that they can peacefully coexist. What he doesn't count on though is pretty much everything that happens next.

If you like the idea of a sunshiny stubborn werewolf and a bored, soft-in-the-middle, vampire, with a bit of bloodshed thrown in for good measure alongside silly hijinks, go and grab a copy of Fake Dates and Fanged Mistakes.

I do seem to have been on a bit of a vampire/werewolf kick, to be honest, and I'll explain why in a minute, but it also led me to read Twice Bitten by Eliot Grayson recently. This is another m/m, paranormal romance, but it's a lot spicier, I think, than Fake Dates and Fanged Mistakes. It's book nine in the Mismatched Mates series, and it might be a novella, but I can't actually remember.

It starts with a werewolf walking into a vampire bar on the hunt for his cheating, murderous mate and bumping into vampire enforcer, Angelo, who takes it upon himself to deal with the intruder. It was fun but short. It did a good job of fleshing out the characters and making me care about whether they'd get their happily ever after.

I haven't read the previous books in the series so there was some characters mentioned where I felt a tiny bit like I was missing something from past books, but it wasn't enough for me to not enjoy the plot. There were magical attack scorpions in this one too, which I've not seen in a book before. So, it's always fun to discover something random and new like that.

So, onto the reason why I've been on a vampire/werewolf kick, it's all because of a book I read years and years ago on Wattpad. The book was Bite Me by Alicia Wallace, and I remember loving it way back when, though I haven't read it since like 2019, I think it was. I reviewed it back then on my old book review blog, My Endless Shelf, if you want to check it out there, it is still live. But anyway, it popped back into my brain because I was scrolling Instagram and an ad popped up for WebToon featuring this graphic novel called Love Bites.

And as I'm watching the ad I'm like, this storyline seems so familiar, and the reason for that obviously is that Love Bites is an adaptation of Bite Me by Alicia Wallace. So, it's really no surprise that it seemed so familiar since I'd already read the story.

I was sort of intrigued to see it in graphic novel format though, so I joined WebToon and read however many episodes were available and I just wanted more, but I didn't want YA. I wanted sort of adult romance, so that's what I went searching for and is basically what I've spent my time mostly reading since the last episode.

But that's not all I've been reading, which is making me feel somewhat proud of myself since I don't usually have loads to say in these segments as I'm a pretty slow mood reader for the most part.

So, I have also been listening to The Demon of Elderstay audiobook by Ira Ribbon, narrated by John York. Ira was kind enough to give me a free audiobook after our podcast chat in March, and it is so, so good.

Having read the books and had the voices for these characters in my head, I can honestly say that I just wish John York was narrating in my brain. He does such a good job of bringing the characters to life while also building on that danger and the shenanigans that the party find themselves in. The audiobook is now available to buy, so do go and check that out. And if you want to find out more about The Demon of Elderstay and you missed the last episode, do go back and give that a listen.

Ira chats all about how Dungeons and Dragons helped to inspire the book and her main character, and how it's now shaping up to be a big fantasy series.

Finally, since the last episode, I've also been reading Bride of the Fae Prince by Anastasis Blythe. I'm so sorry if I said that wrong. This is a fae/human romance about a shy, dutiful human princess and a cunning, vengeful fae prince.

This one's really different to everything else I've read this month. The pacing feels really, really different. I like the story and I like the magic. The main character slightly aggravates me, but I think it's just because it's a different type of story than what I've been reading.

She's a little bit, for a lot of the story, very reliant on other people and has no self-confidence, which you know, it's part of the story. I like my heroines with a bit more gumption.

But yeah, so it's good and I'm enjoying it. I really like the dynamic between the two main characters, the fae prince and the human princess. I really like the danger element that's in there. There's a lot of family drama and politics in this. The ways that Magic Works is kind of fun. Obviously, it's fae magic, so there's glamors and all of that kind of stuff.

But yeah, it's a really interesting world to be in and I'm very excited to finish this, 'cause I haven't yet, I'm most of the way through. I wanna see how it ends and I'm excited to read book two because I've already read the synopsis for book two, and that sounds really good as well.

So yeah, different story. It's definitely not, so far, not spicy at all. So, it's a much more clean fantasy romance. I would say it was probably, I think, either young adult or new adults as well. So again, like I said, completely different kind of story to what I've been reading this month and I think that's what threw me off a little bit just at the start. But yeah, very much enjoying that, Bride of the Fae Prince by Anastasis Blythe. I will get it right at some point.

As well as reading a fair bit this month, I've also added some fantastic new indie books to my TBR that I wanted to share with you.

First up, I managed to catch the Indieverse group book sale on the last day that it ran, last month, because I always leave things to last minute, but I did manage to grab a ton of ebook bargains.

I can't go through all of them, or I'd be here all day, but there are a few that I just wanted to mention because I'm really excited to dive into them.

The first one is The Dark Friars by Ryan J. Hamshaw. This is the first book in an LGBT Young Adult fantasy series. It centers around 17-year-old Liam O'Connor who dreams of a student's murder only to find out, I think, that it's actually happened.

This sounds really spooky and packed with dark magic, so I'm really looking forward to this one. It's also nominated for the Indieverse Book of the Year category.

Scars Like Wings by Chelsea J. Leon was another that really stuck out to me. This is a lesbian fantasy romance about a character named Byrd Pierce, a young woman who lives in a magical library. That was literally enough to sell me on the story. Add in then dragons, witches, a plus size main character, and a sapphic romance, and I am all in.

So, Scars Like Wings is also nominated for best book cover and it's seriously pretty, so do go and check that one out.

An Appreciation of Cats by Des DeViVo is a dual POV slow burn, m/m romance. The reviews for this promise a wholesome, no spice book about finding love in later life, as a retiring veterinarian worries about his health and future.

Honestly, I was drawn to this one at the mention of cats, but the story sounds really sweet and I'm looking forward to reading it. It's nominated for Best Novella at the Indieverse Awards.

There really are so many great books up for awards in this year's Indieverse Awards, so do go and check them out. Get involved by reading as many as you want to, and then vote for your favorites in November. There's actually a fun Indieverse Awards Reading Challenge happening on StoryGraph to help you track the nominated books that you've read.

Okay, I've still got lots more to get through, so I will move on.

I decided to cancel my Butterfly Book Club subscription this month. It was purely a financial decision, as raising a large breed puppy who everyone is joking looks like a small horse at just four and a half months old, it's terrifying, is a tad more expensive than I anticipated, so I had to budget and sadly the book box just had to go for now.

I did, however, receive a final box in April, which was a duology, so two books in one. The two books were Speak of the Demon and Dance with the Demon by Stacia Stark and are books one and two of the Deals with Demons series. This is a paranormal urban fantasy with lots of magic, mystery and danger.

I haven't read the books yet, but I love the back to front design, with each individual story taking up half of the book. They did a great job with the flip design hard cover for each book, and then they added dual toned digital edges that just work really, really well.

The only thing, this is the only thing that I didn't like about the design of this particular book, and I think, actually, I think out of all of the Butterfly Book Club books that I've had, this is the only one where I have a bit of an issue with the design, and it's the dust jacket.

The dust jacket was laser cut to look like wings revealing the design underneath. Now, when I say that, in my own head it sounds amazing, and I can understand the idea behind it and the effect that they were going for. But it's so impractical because of all the little paper cut feathers. They snag on literally everything.

Just getting it out of the bag that it arrived in was a nightmare, and then taking it off and on my bookshelves, just a couple of times, it's now pretty bent outta shape and just looks a bit of a mess. So, that's my only gripe with this one.

Otherwise though, as with all of the Butterfly Book Club books that I've had, the designs are really pretty and I'm really looking forward to reading this one as well.

The best book box that I received this month though wasn't one I purchased. It was sent to me by Josie Jaffrey, who I interviewed about her vampire books back in season three, episode four.

Josie was really kind enough to send me an entire box of goodies, all based around her QuickSilver Book series.

This is a brand new completed fantasy series of three books that are currently available to pre-order. Book one, Kill Me Quick releases next week on June 5th. Book two, A Quick Study, will be available in July, and book three, Quick and the Dead, will release in September.

All will be followed by a special omnibus edition that's coming in October, and will contain all three books in the trilogy plus additional short stories.

The box I received from Josie was insanely cool.

As well as a copy of the Omnibus Edition of all three stories and the short story collection, there were tons of goodies, including a custom deck of playing cards featuring many of Josie's characters. It was so cool to see Jack Valentine in there who is my favorite character from Josie's, Mayday, book.

There were also art cards and a bookmark, a signed book plate, a cute pin badge of the Quicksilver design from the book cover. There was also a bloody bath bomb, which was rose scented, of course, and a bleeding candle, which I have yet to try, and I can't wait. I've never had a bleeding candle before.

Plus, my favorite item, which was a heavy parchment sealed with like a real wax seal. I didn't want to open it and ruin it, but when I did, it revealed a special document from the book that was customized with my signature, so that felt really special.

If you do want to see exactly what was in the box, head to my Instagram channel @myendlessshelf to take a look.

Again, the link will be in the show notes.

The Quicksilver Trilogy is a completed dark fantasy series, and a sapphic vampire romance with both pirates and zombies. It's giving me sapphic Pirates of the Caribbean vibes, and I can't tell you how much that I love that it's an already completed series.

Anyta Sunday has done this too with her new slow-burn fantasy romance series, and I am all here for it.

As someone who starts the first book in a series and then completely forgets everything that happened by the time the next book comes out, I am so on board for series that are already completed and then released much faster.

If you want to find out more about the QuickSilver Trilogy by Josie Jaffrey, go and check out the blurb on her website or wherever you buy your books.

As far as I'm aware, she has a pre-order bonus running right now. So, if you pre-order any book in the series, in any format, whether it's eBook, hardback or paperback, you'll receive a free signed book plate and bookmark featuring character art from the book. That sounds really cool. So, do go and check that out.

Thank you again to Josie for the lovely box and for the book, which I'm really excited to read.

Also as a quick note, I did forget, that Anyta Sunday's new series, I think it starts with The King's Man, that is also now available. The first book in that series is now available.

So, that, I picked up from Kindle Unlimited this month, even though I haven't started to read it yet.
Another lovely gift that I received this month was an advanced reader copy of Goldheart by Tess Carletta.

If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you've probably heard me mention Tess's debut novel Kit and Basie more than a few times, which I loved, and I was so over the moon to receive a copy of Goldheart in my inbox last week.

Goldheart is a queer adult romance set in a world plagued by sun sickness, and centers around the relationship between two royal guards from, I think, enemy territories or kingdoms/queendoms.

The blurb promises terrifying monsters, plant magic, chosen family, and overcoming darkness, and I'm here for all of it. I want to find out what sun sickness is. I wanna find out what the plant magic looks like. I wanna see what the monsters are. I wanna see everything.

I think this might be my next read to be honest, because I just can't wait to dive into this author's work and see what she's created now. Just after how much I loved her debut, I just really want to find out what she's done next. So yeah, I think that one might be next up.

The last book, though that I've added to my TBR this month is the latest Indie Bites magazine, which is the Bards and Bargains edition.

This is available now and features 11 fantasy short stories by a variety of authors. As always, the eBook is completely free and the print book is available at a very low cost. I think they just charge the print fee. Just head over to silversunbooks.com to get your copy.

That leads us really nicely into the part of the show where I announce our next indie author guest, because our special guest is also the featured author in the latest Indie Bites magazine issue.

So, next episode, I'll be chatting with the wonderful R.K. Ashwick, author of two cosy fantasy trilogies, The Lutesong series, and the Side Quest Row series.

I am ridiculously excited to chat with R.K. Ashwick and pick her brain about my favorite characters from A Rival Most Vial and A Captured Cauldron, and I cannot wait to bring that episode to you next week.

So, do look out for that wherever you listen to your podcasts, and remember to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

And if you have any recommendations for books written by indie authors in the romance, fantasy, and paranormal genres, or if there's a particular indie author you'd love to hear on the podcast, do send them my way. As always, you can reach me at ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com or on Instagram and Threads @myendlessshelf

As I've said already, all of the links will be in the show notes.

But that's it for this episode of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning into this bumper episode.

I'll be back next month with more indie book recommendations and another fantastic indie author guest.
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Until next time, happy reading and keep turning the page.

Life has been a little hectic lately thanks to the newest addition to our family. Meet Dio. 

Basically, instead of reading, writing and podcasting, much of my time over the past month has been spent chasing this fur ball around the house and garden, and trying my best to train him while getting him used to visiting all of our favourite places, like the bookshop. 

Because of this, there's unfortunately no Turn the Page podcast this month, but you can catch up on past episodes on your favourite podcast streaming platform or YouTube. 

As I'm a little short on time at the moment, I just wanted to do something a little fun here on the blog today and find out your favourite supernatural creatures! 

So, whether you have a thing for bloodthirsty vampires (that do/don't sparkle), ferocious (but soft in the middle) werewolves, powerful witches, ghosts, ghouls, or any other paranormal creature, let me know which is your favourite in the comments below. 

Depending on how many comments I get, I'll try to come back with some book recommendations based on your choices!

For me personally, I love writing about witches and vampires. I love how dangerously seductive vampires can be and then mixing them with powerful witches who can hold their own. 

I did recently have another story idea for what I feel is an interesting supernatural pairing, but I won't say more yet as I'm seeing how this one goes.

For now though, happy voting - I look forward to seeing who (or what) comes out on top! 

I usually chat about the books I've been reading on the Turn the Page podcast, but for those of you who aren't into podcasts or don't have the time to listen, I figured I'd share a quick update of some of the books that I've been reading and enjoying lately. 

I typically tend to gravitate towards LGBTQ+ fantasy and romance when I'm reading but I'll occasionally pick up something completely different every now and again.

So, let's dive into four of the books I've been enjoying lately, from contemporary young adult and cosy fantasy to historical fae romance and spicy paranormal fantasy. 

1. Do You Ship It by Beth Reekles
This is the first YA book I've read in a long time and I was surprised by just how much I enjoyed it. The story follows a young girl, Cerys, who's best friend and crush has moved to a new college.

So, to try to prove to Jake that she'd make the perfect girlfriend, she decides to jump feet first into his favourite fandom. But when Jake introduces her to his new best friend, Max, she feels like she might lose him forever. Add in the angst of trying to make friends at a new college and parents in the midst of a divorce, and Cerys discovers that losing herself in a new fandom might be just what she needs, even if she doesn't want to. 

This was a really light-hearted, sweet story of self-discovery that I flew through, and while the big twist was pretty predictable, I really enjoyed the way the author executed it while interspersing the story with the joy of discovering a new fandom. 

2. A Captured Cauldron by R.K. Ashwick
This series has quickly become one of my all-time favourite cosy fantasy series.It has major Dungeons and Dragons vibes as we follow potion-maker Ambrose and the rest of the Rosemond Street traders in their day to day lives, often disrupted by dangerous or nefarious goings on.

​I don't want to spoil the plot for anyone who hasn't read the first book but this one was very different to the first as it adds in a new character POV and takes the characters to new locations while experiencing new dangers.

​The series has LGBTQ+ main and secondary characters, and the author packs both heart and humour into each book. 

3. Oak King Holly King by Sebastian Nothwell
This was such a great book to read over winter. It has a really nice, relaxed pace that made it feel as though I spent a long time with the characters and in the world the author had created.

This is a historical fae romance with an m/m pairing. The story takes place half in London and half in the fae realm, and centres around Shrike, a fae warrior who's been given a death sentence by the fae queen, and a human clerk named Wren, who Shrike believes holds the key to his victory. Together, they must face perils in both realms. 

I love the world that the author has created in this book, and the way that the fantasy and historical setting blend so well while combined with both romance and danger. It's quite probably the spiciest also of all the books on this list. 

4. Phantasma by Kaylie Smith
If you ever read Caraval and wished it had more spice, or read The Hunger Games and longed for more magic, Phantasma will give you both. 
​
The story takes place in New Orleans, and starts on the day Ophelia Grimm wakes up to find her mother dead, and herself a necromancer. When events lead to her seeking help from a mysterious phantom inside a dangerous game run by devils, all hell breaks loose, literally, and she must use her special abilities to try to stay alive and solve a mystery. 

This book started off a little too similar to Caraval but took a detour pretty early on, and while the plot felt a bit predictable, I thoroughly enjoyed how the author portrayed the different levels of the game, and the chemistry between the two main characters, which was pretty sizzling.

​I actually only read this book because someone said the male MC was extremely Astarion-coded (a vampire character from the video game, Baldur's Gate 3) and it really lived up to that expectation. 

Welcome to episode 16 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Ira Ribbon, author of The Demon of Elderstay, book one of the New Dark Saga. 

Ira is going to be chatting about her debut adult fantasy book, and how Dungeons and Dragons helped to bring her main character to life and inspired her to write his story. She'll also weigh in on the recent Meta AI scandal, and reveal what she's working on next. 

Ira Ribbon is the New Zealand based author of the humorous fantasy series The New Dark Saga. She shares her life with her tolerant husband, a neurotic rescue dog, and a labour-intensive vegetable patch which demands as much attention as the aforementioned. She enjoys writing stories about a gnome fire mage burdened with demon, and wiling away the weekend arguing with her brother about the pronunciation of fantasy places.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Welcome to episode 16 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast.
Today, I'm joined by Ira Ribbon, the New Zealand based author of the humorous fantasy series, the New Dark Saga.

She enjoys writing stories about a gnome fire mage, burdened with demon and wiling away the weekend arguing with her brother about the pronunciation of fantasy places.

Ira is going to be chatting about her debut adult fantasy book, and how Dungeons and Dragons helped to bring her main character to life and inspired her to write his story. She'll also weigh in on the recent Meta AI scandal, and reveal what she's working on next.

Ira Ribbon: My name is Ira, and the I is the I in I. Ribbon. That is a pen name that I use for any of the books that I write that have some kind of involvement with my brother because it's an anagram of an Italian word, meaning briccone, which is scallywags, which is what we used to call each other as children.

I am 34 years of age. I am part English, part Italian. I was born in England, but I grew up in Italy, in a small little town called Perugia, and for about the last 15 years I've been living in New Zealand.

When it comes to what inspired The Demon of Elderstay, it's a long-winded story, I will try and keep it short.

But I am a Dungeons and Dragons player, oh, I love me some D&D, and my brother was organizing something called a one shot, which is a shorter D&D campaign, usually only one session about three hours long. And it's always enough of an avenue and an opportunity to make these really wild characters that you're not going to carry on so much.

So, he wanted to organize this thing to introduce a friend of ours to the game, and I was sitting at the kitchen table at my parents' place and I thought, what character can I do? And just suddenly out of nowhere, I just had this image of a shorter man with ginger hair, green eyes, and I knew he was a fire mage, and suddenly I knew everything about this person.

I knew he was possessed by a demon, but I thought, why was he possessed by a demon? It must be something stupid. And so I essentially came up with this character.

Obviously, we went and played the one shot. It was an unmitigated disaster. I'm pretty sure all us died after about two hours of play.

We called it a day, but the character stayed with me and I remember telling my brother, I would really like to play this character again, this character who is Gerome. And the opportunity presented itself about six months later with another one shot where my brother had gathered about five of our friends, and he just essentially organized the whole thing online, through a thing called Roll20 where you have all the maps and the tokens of your character can move around, and we just did the whole thing over Discord.

Again, one shot's are classically this way, one of my friends was playing, I think she was a Paladin that was named after a Justin Timberlake song. Another one was a Warforge that was just, I am a robot, the whole time.

Again, about two or three of us died at the end of the campaign. But what stayed with me was the setting that my brother had created. He'd envisioned this cursed city with a dome over it, and I loved playing out the character.

I know. It was just fantastic, and I loved playing the Gerome character because he, how'd you'd say, isn't the classic hero of any kind of story, and I really, really enjoyed playing him.

But after that campaign was over, what happened was he just wouldn't leave me alone.

It was almost as if I had a character on my shoulder all the time telling me his story, and I thought, I have to write this down, I have to write this story, and I have to actually turn it into a story because a one shot is by no means a completed plot. You actually have to give it threads. You have to actually deepen it all out.
​
So, I know a lot of people do mention that it sounds like a completely unhinged D&D campaign that's gone off the rails. That's how it was born. It was very much born from one of those.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. I mean, I think I did say that to you previously, is it does really feel like a chaotic D&D campaign at times, but in the best possible way.

I knew from your Instagram that you're a D&D player, so did that sort of influence the way that you wrote certain scenes? Did you, sort of, put your dungeon masters head on almost, or did you collaborate with your brother to develop that at all?

Ira Ribbon: A little bit of both.

I find that what D&D does for me, it helps me get into the headspace of the character, and because he's a first person narrator, he's unreliable. It just helps me, when I play a D&D campaign with him as the character, it just really helps me get into that headspace. So, I find like I'm playing the character and I'm getting really down to what he would say, how we would relate to others.

And whenever I'm stuck on something that I'm writing, yes, I have actually used my brother. And again, that's why I use the I. Ribbon.

In fact, what we've ended up doing, and I can mention this briefly, it's for other books. Because what happened is, I wrote this story, I wrote it because I needed to, because it was just, as I say, this character wasn't leaving me alone. It felt like a new idea, something fun, something very different than what I've ever written in the past. And I said to my brother, I said, I wonder if we can do this again, because I had the outline for the second story and I knew the characters. I knew I'd made character sheets, I'd made plot threads, I'd structured the whole thing. And I said, I wonder if it would help me draw him out again if we played another one shot.

So, we literally gathered him and my mother, who happens to play D&D , and I just told her, you be this character because this is who I've come up with, and I just let it happen.

I did say to my brother, I don't care what comes out of it, even if we just do it for the fun, but it just helps me get into that headspace. It helps me get a beginning, a middle, and an end to a story. Even if we don't necessarily use all of the details, all of the scenes, it just really helps me draw that out.

And it was successful again, because I finished the second about two years ago and I'm currently at the stage of editing it, and I'm doing it for the third as well. So, I think I'm onto something, Kay.
I've figured out how to draw creativity out of me without prodding.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): See, I'm just over here playing D&D for fun and I really should be using it to help me with my stories.

Ira Ribbon: Oh, you know, I think as long as fun is always at the forefront, I really believe that creativity should always be fun. So, I used to be a bit of a plotter as an author. I would have one or two scenes that really engaged me and I would work towards those scenes, but I would plod my way through and pine over everything instead.

This way of drawing out the creativity actually really, yeah, it felt more fluid. In fact, The Demon of Elderstay's first draft was written in a month, which I assure you is unheard of for me.

I know, I'm not that way. I'm usually a six months to a year type of draft person, and then the editing's another year. In fact, the editing took a year because I'm OCD, but the actual writing down of the story, that was very quick.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. Going back to what you were saying about these unhinged characters.

Yeah, I've got the same. I DM games, so I've got a game with my partner and a friend of ours, and my partner plays a badass purple-haired druid. She can turn into anything, most notably tiny creatures apparently. Instead of big, giant ones, it's always spiders and mice. The other one is like the Terminator. So, literally just wanted to be a metal man with a gun. So, it's crazy what they get up to. They couldn't be more polar opposite characters, but it's so much fun.

So obviously, in D&D there's a great sense of humor. Is that why you blended the dark fantasy D&D vibes with humor with your book, or was there another reason? How did that humor come about?

Ira Ribbon: I think with me, with the story, definitely there's huge humorous elements in D&D, but I love stories that handcuff drama and humor to the same radiator. I'm a huge fan of Sir Terry, Terry Pratchett, the author of the Discworld series.

He managed to make some really, I guess, poignant assessments of the human condition while also lathering the whole thing in hilarious jokes, and I find that it really delivers those emotional punches when one minute you've been laughing, the next you're like, oh my God, this is terrible, and it just delivered those hits so much harder.

But also, I think it's because of the first person narrator. I know that Gerome is wise-cracking, sarcastic, and currently very cynical about his life, and I think that comes across better with the humor that is, you know, all that is Gerome.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, I actually found the humor dynamic between Gerome and Al, the demon who is possessing him, I found that fascinating. I absolutely loved their dynamic because it was tense and serious, but also really funny. So, how did you go about crafting that relationship, so balancing that humor and tension, and also the looming threat of Al breaking free?

Ira Ribbon: Honestly, with difficulty, because Al can only emerge once Gerome is low on drugs. So, it was always a timing thing because he just couldn't appear at all times. But at the same time, he has to appear in important moments in the book when the character is under some kind of threat, has run out of drugs, and so there's that looming threat all the time.

I do love their interaction. I love writing their interaction. I know how polar opposite they are, but also how similar they are because as, again, I'll try not to spoiler anything, but there's some things I have mentioned in the first book, which is, in a way, Al was crafted after a lot of Gerome's insecurities. Like every way he wanted to look, every way he wanted to be. So, in a way, it's quite confronting for him as well to have this other character that is all of the things, but at the same time a demon. So, he's nefarious, he's evil, he's got his own agenda and intentions, and Gerome wants nothing more than to get rid of him.

But again, he is, in a way, a part of him, and so I love crafting that relationship, and I can't wait to explore more of it as this relationship evolves in future books.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I'm really excited to find out sort of how that grows and what happens. I mean, as you already said, Gerome is such a refreshingly, unconventional hero.

He seems to have a healthy sense of self preservation, but with the magical drug addiction and getting himself into trouble. So, he's just a really fascinating character. He's also an LGBTQ+ main character. So, can you tell us why that was important to you to include that representation in your story?

Ira Ribbon: The world is a very diverse place and also everyone is unique, so I think that there is a certain urge to portray that, but when it came to Gerome being gay, I knew everything about this character when he walked into my mind. So, I knew what his name was. I knew how many brothers he had. I knew what he liked to eat, what he liked to wear, and this isn't something that's happened to me with other characters before. I knew everything about him, and I knew without a shred of doubt that he had been possessed by a demon because he did something pretty stupid for the love of a man {inaudible}.

And so, yeah, I knew without a shred of doubt who he was and what he was about.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I know you said he came to you sort of in a moment, did all of that come in a moment, or was that with the help of sort of going through the character sheet and just building him out and fleshing him out?

Ira Ribbon: I think what came from the D&D sheet were his powers.

I thought, you know, the magical system, at least in my story, was very much of it takes a very, very long time to master the magical arts, so usually wizards or witches are specialized in one thing. So, I made him an elemental manipulator so he can master fire, but he took a minor in evasive magic so he can go invisible, which is incredibly convenient.

And also "no space", as you know, is the little pocket dimension that he can fold himself in.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, that's seriously cool. I want one of those just to escape certain social situations.

Ira Ribbon: With all my favorite things, and my snacks and little mini bar.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Oh my gosh. Have you seen, I don't know if you're a fan of Critical Role. They had their Legends of Vox Machina campaign turned into a TV series.

Ira Ribbon: I love them, meaning my brother has listened to the podcast throughout. I'm shocking, like, I read synopsis, so oftentimes what I do is when I become interested in something, I will read the whole story out instead of actually spending the time listening to it. My brother's listened to the whole thing.

I've watched Vox Machina season one. Where are we at now, season three?

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, I think so.

Ira Ribbon: I watched them all twice, at least. Once with my brother then once with my husband. So, we've gone through. I love Vox Machina, I really do. I wonder if they're gonna do the next season, the second part, you know, season two, it's not Vox Machina, it's the other one.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): The Mighty Nine. Yes, I think they are actually, I think it's been green lit and I've seen some early animation, so I think it is coming. I don't know when, but the only reason I mentioned it was because, when I read the Demon of Elderstay, when I was reading about Gerome's pocket dimension, and it reminded me of Scanlan's, I forgot what it's called, but where he has his like retreat, and I just thought it was such a fantastic thing.

Ira Ribbon: You know what I think the inspiration may have been from, you know the spell blink? One where you can take yourself to another plane of existence. I thought, wow, how neat, what if you'd made it and you could go there.

I do realize it's {inaudible} in the sense that at the moment he can take himself off, but because of the drugs that kind of gave him that weakness that he wasn't always able to concentrate or focus sufficiently to get himself out of trouble.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, I think the way it was designed reflects his character as well. Like, it could have been this big, huge, lavish place, but Gerome just wanted somewhere small that he could just get away and be by himself. So, I think it reflects him quite well.

So, what was your favorite scene or moment to write in The Demon of Elderstay and why?

I hope this isn't a spoilery question.

Ira Ribbon: I'll put a spoiler on it at the beginning just in case I do say something, but with The Demon of Elderstay, I found, and this is something I found with all of the books from the New Dark Saga that I've been writing, something happens, there's a scene that kind of cements in my mind and I find myself working towards that scene.

Now, in The Demon of Elderstay it was a not particularly exciting scene. Gerome had taken himself out of trouble. It was at the end there when the big bad may or may not have been defeated, and he's taken himself off and he comes back, and he's looking around the underground cavern and he sees Polly there.

And there's that moment of, I think it's almost great compassion from him. It's almost like he's looking at her and he realizes, you know, you were tricked by a demon. No one else will get it, but I get it.

And all he says at the end of all of that reasoning is, he reaches out for her and he says, let's go.

I think it's actually one of the first times, she's very averse to being touched, and I think that is probably one of the more positive interactions that they'd had. So, he takes her away and that scene for me was essentially what The Demon of Elderstay was built on, like all working my way to that moment, to that particular scene.

As I say, not a particularly exciting moment, not a particularly anything moment, but that stayed in my mind as the scene I was working towards.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, it's definitely a scene that resonates.

Ira Ribbon: Yeah, I'm glad because I know, as I say, it wasn't necessarily the most exciting part, the biggest part, but I think it was the part that kind encapsulates understanding Gerome as a character and where he's at. He's at his worst in The Demon of Elderstay, for sure.

There was another scene that I had a lot of fun writing, which is when our heroes have charged down to the bridge to fight the undead hordes that are coming out of the city, and Gerome considers leaving and then he is like, you know what? No.

And then he snorts the equivalent of cocaine and runs himself down to the bridge, and at that moment I'm not even writing anything prosaic anymore, it's just a flow of conscience.

But he's even making his own soundtrack, like, bam, bam. That was great fun for me to write, and I've recently had the opportunity to work on an audiobook with a tremendous audiobook narrator called John York, and I cannot wait to share it with the world. He has done this book so much justice. He's just tremendous, all of the characters, he's given them a much deeper dimension. It was just, honestly, it was mind blowing for me as the writer and I just cannot wait to share it with the world.

It's currently being uploaded to Findaway Voices. It is taking their sweet time to distribute it, but I know I'll have some free redemption code soon. So, I have been offering them out and then people will essentially click on the link and go to Spotify and be able to listen to it.

Obviously, it would be lovely to get a honest review, as always.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I love audio books when I've already read the book because it's just having those characters then come to life as well.

Ira Ribbon: Yep, a hundred percent.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, aside from Gerome and Al, who was your favorite character to write, and did any of the characters surprise you as well?

Ira Ribbon: Yes, and this again ties into the audiobook.

Initially, I thought that not many people would like Polly because I thought she's a bit bratty. She's a teenager. She doesn't like to be touched. She's not very socialized, and instead she turned out to be the most popular of my characters, and I actually really enjoyed writing her.

Another character I really enjoy writing is Bijan, because I think, what is the most self-righteous, pompous thing I can say at any given time to just be this quintessential hero, which is great contraposition when you put him next to Gerome, who is quite the opposite at the moment, and obviously looks at him quite admiringly, among other things. Yeah, I really enjoyed writing Bijan.

I noticed that in the audiobook, I loved both of these characters even more, Polly and Bijan, they just really come out. Their voices are very individual and I really felt for them, and I started to really understand why so many people loved Polly the way they did. That's extra dimension I think that the audiobook provides.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, she's a great character. Like you said, at the beginning, you're almost not sure what to make of her, but as the story develops she sort of gets under your skin in a few different ways.

Going back to what you said before about the scene with Gerome going across the bridge, that actually was, I think, the scene that made me think most that it was a D&D campaign. It was almost that moment where somebody in the party is trying to split the party or just trying to do something for themselves, and then suddenly the barbarian rages or something, and they just charge in without thinking.

Ira Ribbon: Without any plan.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah.

So, you improvised some of this as almost you were doing the D&D campaign. Were there any specific moments that came out of the one shots that you did that went into the book?

Ira Ribbon: Yes, there will be. I'll be honest. Kay, I probably won't remember exactly which scenes, but I do know that there were some scenes that really kind of cemented, as I was writing this plot down.

I seem to remember that one member of our party decided to resurrect a Goblin, and I remember thinking, that's a weird thing to do. But then I really put it in a different context.

I thought, well, what if you have this character who's really poorly socialized, who's had all these things happen to her that she thinks that it's okay actually to bring things back to life in such a way, and in a twisted way think, we've already lost so many people, or we might lose people along the way, why not bring one back? So, in this twisted, messed up way to do so.

So, I gave it a reason other than what a character did, which is just do it for fun.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah. So, just a quick, fun question. If you were gonna join an adventuring party alongside your existing characters, what D&D race and class would you play as and why?

Ira Ribbon: You know, I think they're in dire need of someone stealthy. They're in dire need of someone who actually thinks things through, who can do things quietly, who can actually persuade his way through things.

So, definitely a rogue, someone who can open all the doors, disarm all the traps, open all the locks, and I have a historic love for dragon borns.

My very first D&D character is called Bedius, and he was a dragon born rogue. Very tragic backstory, as always when you're playing your first D&D character, they've the most tragic backstories.

After two years, I played Bedius for two years, a very long campaign, and in the end of the story, he sacrifices himself to save everybody else, and I don't think I've ever recovered. So, I'd probably play him again.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Maybe you can get someone to resurrect him.

Ira Ribbon: Yeah, exactly.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, you've already mentioned, The Demon of Elderstay is book one of the New Dark Saga, and you said that you were working on books two and three, I think you said. When can we expect book two? Do we have a date for that yet?

Ira Ribbon: Now, I'm always very conservative with estimates, just in case something happens that is outside of my control, but I'm very happy to say that I have edited book two now about five times. I am at the last four chapters from the end, and this is like my final edit, my final reread, just to make sure that I haven't used a million adverbs.

I have a terrible tendency to just, here we go again, I use just. Just goes everywhere. It's this softening word that I seem to put in every place. So, I actually have a piece of software that helps me find when I have repeated a word too many times. So, I go in there and I change it, and so that's what I'm doing at the moment.

I've lined up my editor for mid-April. She's going to take the book, she's wonderful, and usually within a month she's done, just in time for me to incorporate those changes, give it a last read for myself, because again, I'm quite pedantic. I just really wanna make sure that people are reading something I'm proud to put out. So, unfortunately that means that it takes a bit longer than I'd usually plan.

But yeah, so I'm estimating that definitely an official release by October, but the ARC readers can expect it, I would say July/August.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Okay, brilliant, and the audiobook you said is sort of imminent?

Ira Ribbon: Oh, John was brilliant. He'd actually finished it pretty much in November/December, and I had made a newsletter in January saying, it's happening everybody, and then uploaded it and it didn't happen, and it didn't happen for two months.

So, I've been going back and forth with Findaway Voices, and just yesterday there's been a development. I think that it's been uploaded correctly and that now I'll be able to retrieve the redemption codes. So, fingers crossed, very soon, I'm hoping a couple of weeks.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Are you working on anything else in the meantime as well?

Ira Ribbon: I am. I'm working on the third. I find that I am quite bad at doing, I'm either editing or marketing or writing, I am very bad at doing all of them at the same time. In fact, that's why my poor readers sometimes must get absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of posting I do, and then suddenly I vanish for a couple of months, don't do anything, 'cause I'm sitting here editing or writing.

And I think it's that balance, I'm sure every writer goes through this, balancing your family, your mortgage paying job, and the writing side, and then that's very much what I'm doing at the moment.

But yes, definitely writing the third, which is called The Seer of Hopper-Tikker, and that will be a bit of a watershed book, that one.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Okay. I mean, I can definitely relate to the writer thing. I sometimes just do bouts of marketing because I think I need to do it because I've gone quiet for ages, but I haven't actually finished doing the thing I'm supposed to be doing. So, it's always a struggle.

Is the New Dark Saga gonna be a trilogy or will there be more books after the third?

Ira Ribbon: I am planning, this is a very loose number at the moment, seven or eight.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Brilliant, that's amazing.

Ira Ribbon: Yeah, and there's actually quite a few, but I've been talking about it with my brother and husband, and they think that I have 13 or 14 in me, and I said, well, maybe, but I don't want to do more than necessary.

But the books initially are episodic. One comment that was made to me was, this book is great, but it's short and there wasn't much lore, and the thing is, I'm planning on bread crumbing the lore throughout the book because it's very much from the first person view of one person and so they'll tend to, it will come up in conversation, it will come out in that way, but I won't do lore dumps.
It's not really a high fantasy, it's more a quippy, quick, unreliable narrator, dark fantasy with humor.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I like that though because sometimes you can get a huge info dump and it kind of puts you off a little bit, and I like when it's sort of dropped through. I think it keeps it interesting so you learn bits as you go along.

Would you say that each one almost, just tying it back to D&D, do you reckon each one's kind of like its own little one shot and it builds, sort of like each one's a session that builds into like a whole campaign?

Ira Ribbon: That's a hundred percent what I'm doing.

I read this book by Elizabeth Gilbert one time called Big Magic, which is a tremendous book for creative, so I would highly recommend it.

But there's something that she says in there which is, be the trickster. She makes reference to an episode where someone was struggling with very bad writer's block and so decided to try and get over their writer's block by taking themselves off with a bunch of girlfriends to have a nice weekend at the batch, and she did this thing where they were having wine, they were laughing, and she would get pieces of her manuscript and read them out to her friends, and then they would bounce back ideas off her, and then she'd run off and start writing again, and then come back with more ideas. It's essentially about using different ways to sometimes unlock yourself creatively.

And I found that D&D did that for me. I just play it for fun, but sometimes there's just something, like a little gem that comes out from those sessions, and it feels quite rewarding this way of getting ideas, of being creative, because I know that formally that was not how I was, as I mentioned before, I was a bit of a plotter. I'd sit there and just think my way through it, and it was less fun. Instead, this gives it a lot more fun. Of course, I still have to do the plotting part of actually writing it, but it comes more easily once I've, in a way, lived it before.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, you mentioned writing before as well. Is The Demon of Elderstay your only published book, or do you have others?

Ira Ribbon: I do, but I kept a degree of separation because I actually write middle grade animal stories for children.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Oh, wow, okay. That's lovely.

Ira Ribbon: I know, under my own name. As you can imagine, I didn't want the two mixed just in case I had some child read this. No, no, we don't want that. I was recently at a Comic Con event and there was this lovely 8-year-old, and she turned up at the stand, and my covers, it's got two covers. One's a bit darker, it probably implies that it's a bit more adult, but the other one is colorful and the characters are on it. So, she was like, oh, can I read this? And I was making a gesture at the parent, I was like, no, no, no, no.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Save it for when they're older.

Ira Ribbon: When they're older. I just went to her and I said, just have a read of the content warning.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, again, fun question. If you could step into the world of The Demon of Elderstay for one day, what's the first thing you do or what character would you want to hang out with the most?

Ira Ribbon: There is a place I would like to go. I've described very briefly or mentioned the Enchanted Institution and the biggest, I guess, part of the Enchanted institution is called the floating faculty, which is literally like a floating Hogwarts. I love the concept of dark academia and of magical academia. So, the Enchanted institution has this faculty called the floating faculty, so I would love to go there, and I would love to hang out in Gerome's office and play with all his magical baubles and things.

Yeah, probably I'd hang out with him. I'd ask him, where is this going? Can you stop harassing me? Tell me the whole story.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. Does the magical institute come into the future books any more?

Ira Ribbon: It will, it will definitely feature. I think what I'm trying to do here is I will have a lot of different books set in different parts of Tellerin, which is the planet or the world in which the story takes place, and then it will be episodic in nature to introduce different characters from all different parts of this world.

Then as the story rises and stakes, I'm going to pull everyone back together. So, it's a bit of a saga, a bit of a journey that I'm wanting to go on with this particular book.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That sounds great. Can you reveal at all who the protagonist of book two is? Is it still Gerome or have we switched?

Ira Ribbon: It's still Gerome because I love writing him, and I love his situation with Al. He's definitely gonna be the protagonist throughout.

However, I have dabbled with the idea, I've seen other writers do it, of writing short novellas at times to deepen the stories of other characters, and those would be written in a third person.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, that's a good idea. So, obviously we've talked about your book is pact with humor. What's the funniest or most unexpected piece of feedback that you've received from readers so far?

Ira Ribbon: This was a big surprise to me, and I've had it now from a few readers, so I'm starting to really listen, that Gerome is a bit of an a-hole.

I hadn't realized at the beginning 'cause of course I love him. I know him intimately as well, of course. I know where he's going. I know what his background is. I know everything about him. So, I think I have a very different perspective of him, but I heard it. When I listened to the audiobook, I was like, oh, I see it now. I see it now, you are a bit like that, aren't you? Because he was so self-centered.

I also think the fact that he had an addiction and that, that was the focus, like his prime focus is he just wants to get paid. He just wants to get paid and just get out of here, he doesn't need any of this, and he makes it quite clear that he doesn't want any trouble, that this is it. So, I think that's quite different from many other heroes, and I think he came across as a bit jarring to a lot of people.

Some people absolutely loved him. They said to me, oh, you know, I feel sorry for him. Like, what have you done, Ira? You made his life horrible, and I'll redeem myself for that.

But also this feedback that yes, he wasn't the most beloved character, Polly was. Hands down, everybody loved Polly.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): See, I love Gerome. I get the asshole thing, but he's like a lovable asshole. So, he has many, many redeeming qualities.

Ira Ribbon: Sprinkled throughout everything else.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah. So, finally, I mean, this has gone so fast, I've had so much fun talking to you, but could you tell listeners where they can find out more about you and your work please?

Ira Ribbon: Yes. I am all over the internet or I try to be. So, I have an Instagram account, I have a TikTok account, I'm on Threads. All of this is, I managed to keep the same handle pretty much for everyone, but on Instagram and Threads and TikTok, it's @iribbon.author. I also have a website which is www.iribbonauthor.com, and I am very much a fan of emails. Anyone who wants to get in touch with me can do so through there as well.

I try to keep my websites up to date, and as I say, whenever I have something to say, I pack my social media.

I also have a tight knit group, a street team, on Facebook. I have a much smaller Facebook presence, but I do have a street team called, I Ribbon Author Gerome's Party.

So, anyone who wants to come find me there.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. Just to add a very final question actually, just because you mentioned Facebook and you don't have to answer, but I feel like I must ask. With the whole Meta mess that is going on at the moment, I noticed that you discovered that your book was on the list of books that had been used to train Meta's AI.

It's crazy what's going on around this, and I just wondered how you feel about it.

Ira Ribbon: I can, of course. It's so topical at the moment. I will try not to use any swear words coming up in the next five minutes.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): It's so hard, isn't it?

Ira Ribbon: It is. I expected better, especially from a company that is so wealthy that actually had it within the realms of their capacity to actually reward people for their work instead of just taking it from a pirate site that they know to be a pirate site.

But on some level, Kay, I've always suspected that eventually generative AI would get its hands and scrape the internet, so it would get its hands on either my work or the work of many other authors. To have it so black on white, this is what happened, was in a way a relief because I knew for certain that it had been scraped instead of it being a will they/won't they, will it be in such a backhanded way that I won't know?

Instead, I think this gives us the opportunity to rally and to put some parameters around AI. Like, I'm not against AI in principle, I'm against AI in the creative industry.

I think it has a business being in to diagnose patients. I think it has a great ability to code, to provide design in engineering, in an engineering sense to do simulations, models. I really do believe it is just among many of the tools that we will be using in the future as part of our technological advancement, but it really had no business scraping the internet for, what is it, 7.5 million books?

Kay M. Weston (she/her): It's a staggering number.

Ira Ribbon: A staggering number, so much so that it affected so many people that I don't think they can get away with it, because now we have authors lobbying their governments. I have already signed up to the American Author's Guild and sent a letter that has ended up in the void to Mr. Zuckerberg.

I've already been contacted by the New Zealand Society of Authors to put my name down to say, yep, I have had my book stolen as well. I have even gone so far as, the American Author's Guild is now offering human certification on the book. I mean, the world we live in now that you have to say that, yes, this was written by a human.

So, I am human certified. I can spot all of the traffic lights and all of the buses in the little squares. So yeah, essentially this is now what we are dealing with.

So, I am very much looking forward to seeing what happens in June, 'cause my understanding is there's a court case playing out in North Carolina, which will give us a sense if we can take class action or if it will be individual action, but something will come of this, and I do think it will set some legislative and procedural parameters around the use of AI, which I can't wait for because it's simply moved so fast that governments and everybody else hasn't really had the time to catch up.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, you hear so many things from the government saying, we're gonna put funding into AI. We want to be the leaders in AI, but I still don't think they actually know what it means and how it affects people.

It's one of those things where I think, as writers, you know that piracy sites exist, you know that certain people are gonna be using them, but on this kind of scale, it's just shocking.

Ira Ribbon: Yep, a hundred percent, and I feel for all the other authors who found their work on there as well.

AI came to affect me quite personally through my brother. He unfortunately is a graphic artist, and he lost his job due to AI, and so I know he felt very strongly about this particular topic, hence he is my AI art detector. If I'm about to hire a graphic artist, he will look through their stuff to make sure that it hasn't been stolen. He's got some magic power. He can just see if it's AI or not.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's very good, good skill to have.

Ira Ribbon: Yes, it really is, and I'm getting a bit better at it as well. Even to recog recognizing text, I'm starting to understand what people are saying, seeing the patterns. But it's an interesting new world in which we live in, but I'm sure that the chips will fall somewhere, so we will come to some kind of clarity as to where this is all going in the future.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah. Well, I'm sorry to end what was a lovely, upbeat, happy conversation on a very doldrum note, I'm so sorry.

Ira Ribbon: It's okay, and thank you for making this such a wonderful experience and such a personalized interview. I was very, very humbled, very happy. This is my very first podcast.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): You've been fantastic, and thank you again for getting up so ridiculously early to do this. I didn't actually realize that you were in New Zealand until we spoke, and then I was like, oh, no. Thank you so much and have a lovely rest of the day.

Ira Ribbon: You too.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Thank you, speak soon.
​
Ira Ribbon: Thank you, Kay, bye.

Here are all the links included in this episode.

• ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com
• www.instagram.com/myendlessshelf
• www.youtube.com/@turnthepagepodcast
• www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2025/03/libgen-meta-openai/682093/​

​Music Credit: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠SigmaMusicArt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Welcome to episode 15 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast.

I'm excited to be back with you, albeit a few days later than usual, and I'll explain why in a minute.

Today, we have a packed episode covering everything from big tech screwing over authors and new indie book recommendations. Plus, I'll be revealing our next indie author guest.

Before we get into all of that, don't forget to hit subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on, so you never miss an episode. And if you enjoy the show, please consider recommending it to your book loving friends, because let's be honest, who doesn't need more indie books in their life?

So, get comfy, open your book tracking app or TBR journal, and let's dive into today's episode.

First things first, let me explain why this episode is a bit late. I do have a couple of very good reasons. The first boring reason is that I've been under the weather recently, which you might hear in my voice because I'm still not fully recovered. So, that slowed me down a bit.

But on a much more interesting note, we've had a puppy.

For those of you who've listened to the podcast for a while, you might remember that my 11-year-old German Shepherd passed away last year. It was a rough time and I'm still nowhere near over losing her. I'm not sure I ever will be, to be honest, but my partner and daughter were desperate to welcome another dog into the house. So, we recently adopted a 10-week-old ball of fluff in the form of a German Shepherd puppy.

My partner settled on the name, Dio. But honestly, he's pure black and looks so much like a bat that I keep calling him my little bat boy, and I think Cassian might be a more fitting name. If you've read A Court of Thorns and Roses, you'll know what I mean, and trust me, his energy matches Cassian's too. This guy is huge for his age and he's a whirlwind of energy.

So, so far, it's just been training cuddles and pure chaos. But worth it as the little monster is adorable. If you want to see the little terror, I'll be posting a photo of him on my Instagram @myendlessshelf.
I'd love to know if you have any pets with book related names, so do let me know on any of the podcast or social channels. You can also get in touch through YouTube comments and by writing to ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com. I'll drop all of the links into the show notes.

Another exciting thing that happened recently was having the opportunity to head to London to attend the Alliance of Independent Author's Member Party at the London Book Fair earlier this month.

It was an amazing experience filled with networking, catching up with fellow indie authors, and discussing some really important things affecting indie authors at the moment.

Some of the big conversations revolved around the effects of AI on writers, and I'll be talking more about that soon, the rise of direct sales and self-fulfilment for authors, the recent Amazon KDP changes I mentioned last month, and lots more. So, it was a really insightful and fun evening, and I left feeling really inspired.

If you're an indie author and you haven't looked into ALLi yet, I highly recommend checking them out. They have tons of free resources if you're not able to join, and additional support and networking for members.

For full disclosure, I am a member, and I do work with them also.

Now, before we get into the usual reading updates and indie book recommendations, I just wanted to cover something that's been all over the news and social media this week. Since many of you have probably heard something about this already, I'm going to keep it short so you can skip over it if you're not interested.

But for those who are wondering what I'm talking about, you might not have heard yet that Meta, which is Facebook, Threads, and Instagram's parent company, has been found out for training its AI on pirated books.

So, to put it in the simplest terms, one of the richest companies in the world has chosen to knowingly steal work from authors on the basis that it had already been stolen by someone else, instead of compensating authors for their work.

To top it off, they've stolen work by creatives to create a tool that's designed to take creative jobs and livelihoods.

So, all in all, a completely dick move, especially when they knew what they were doing. If you haven't read the official findings yet from The Atlantic, feel free to take a look because it is astounding, honestly.

One of the internal communications literally states that Meta felt that purchasing the rights for books to use to train their AI was "unreasonably expensive", which is laughable for a company with that much money. They flat out knew it was wrong, and they did it anyway.

So, naturally it's made pretty much every author I know of understandably furious, and I'm sure you'll have seen one or two posts of authors venting on various social media platforms, blogs, newsletters, et cetera.

The sad thing is that this story is just one piece of a much bigger problem, which is the way AI is being used to strip away opportunities from real, hardworking creatives.

We're seeing AI-narrated audiobooks, replacing human narrators. AI generated art replacing illustrators, and AI-written books creeping into bestseller lists.

For authors, artists, and creators, this isn't just an inconvenience, it's a direct threat to their livelihoods. Creatives everywhere who've spent years honing their craft, only to be told that a machine trained on stolen work can replace them because it's cheaper.

Look, I get it. We don't all have unlimited budgets, you know, like big tech corporations, for example, but I do believe there's a difference between not being able to afford something and choosing not to pay a person, just because AI is cheaper.

At the end of the day, what are we sacrificing? Creativity, authenticity, human connection.

Honestly, forgive me if there's something I'm missing here and some reason why AI is being used to do creative jobs, but I'm just not seeing a justifiable reason to put creators’ livelihoods at risk, and to saturate media with AI-produced content if the only justification is cheaper cost.

I understand that AI has its uses and that it can make things easier for a lot of people. I'm all for AI and other technologies being used to better people's lives, but when we're sacrificing human creativity and emotion, and risking human jobs for something that doesn't think or feel, something that doesn't need to worry about putting food on the table, it seems to me that we're giving up something really bloody important and exceptional for something very mediocre.

But onto happier topics, I've been diving into some really fantastic books written by humans lately.

The first one I want to talk about is A Captured Cauldron by R.K. Ashwick. I've talked about this book a few times because I read the first one, A Rival Most Vial last year, and really fell in love with the characters.

This time, we're back with Ambrose and Eli, but we get the POV of another character, Dawn, who's Ambrose's best friend and wandmaker of Roseman Street where the story is set.

This one took a completely different turn than the last one, but since it's a sequel, I really don't want to give too much away, other than to say that I loved every minute of this immersive, cozy fantasy and can't wait for book three.

Also, thanks to the Right Here, Write Queer podcast, I've been listening to the first two chapters of the Oak King Holly King audio book by Sebastian Nothwell.

This was the book that crossed me over from 2024 to 2025, so I have read it, but I'm loving the narration by Gary Furlong, and I'm enjoying hearing how he's bringing the characters to life.

You can check out those two chapters for free through the Right Here, Write Queer Podcast, and then I think it's available to buy pretty much everywhere.

I also read 10 Ways to Accidentally Fall in Love by Emmy Sanders. This was a silly, laugh out loud mm romance that had me chuckling and rolling my eyes, in a good way, at the OTT gym-bro style, language and behaviour from the main character, as he completely fails at being a wingman for his new gym buddy, and well, you'll have to read it to find out what happens next.

And I finally finished Phantasma. If you remember from the last episode, I'd only just started it and felt like it was very similar to Caraval. But I have to say, since reading it, it's so much steamier than Caraval. If you read Caraval but wanted more steam, Phantasma will give you that.

It was definitely an interesting read, and I thoroughly enjoyed how the different levels of hell or sins were portrayed during the game. It really was like Caraval meets the Hunger Games, but more adult.

I was also able to check off another two books on the Dungeons and Dragons 2025 Reading Challenge over on The Storygraph.

With Phantasma, I was able to check off the necromancy and the dark arts prompt, since the main character was a necromancer. And with A Captured Cauldron, I checked off the tavern prompt since the book has multiple POVs and it is a cozy fantasy. Also, while it doesn't start with the main characters meeting in a tavern, they do start in a bakery and there's a tavern in the story. So, I'm giving it that one.

So, I'm up to five of those prompts checked off now. But what about you? How are your reading goals going so far this year? Please do let me know.

With it being such a busy month, I haven't really added many new books to my TBR, so I could do with your help here. If you have any recommendations for me for books written by indie authors in the romance, fantasy, and paranormal genres, do send them my way.

As always, you can reach me at ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com or on Threads and Instagram @myendlessshelf.

If you tuned into the last episode, you might remember that I mentioned Split Fiction, which was a video game that had caught my eye. Well, my partner and I played it over the last month, and honestly, it was even better than I expected.

I'll be completely transparent here, I'm not the best when it comes to time challenge style games, and there were a number of times where I got really mad because I struggled to do something, most notably the pinball machine level, which felt just incredibly difficult, but the story and the gameplay was just brilliant.

The way the game explores storytelling and friendship, while feeding off the tension between writers and big tech that's just so relevant to everything in the industry right now, was just really compelling. Since it's a couch co-op, it also gave me another excuse to just hang out with my partner while we battled crazy creatures, machines, and villains.

If you enjoy narrative driven games and ever-changing gameplay, I'd highly recommend that you check this one out.

Before I finish up today's short catch-up episode, I'm really excited to announce that our next indie author guest is Ira Ribbon, author of The Demon of Elderstay. Ira will be joining us next week to talk about how Dungeons and Dragons influenced her world building and character creation. She'll also be sharing her thoughts on the Meta AI scandal, and giving us a sneak peek into what she's working on next.

If you're a fan of dark fantasy with a touch of humour, you won't want to miss this conversation.

That's all for this episode of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in.

I'll be back next month with more indie book recommendations and another fantastic indie author guest.
​
Until next time, happy reading and keep turning the page.

For the most part when I'm writing, I'm a plantser, which for me means that I often start writing an idea down, sometimes it's just a random scene, without really knowing where the story's going. 

​I love this way of writing because it allows my creativity to just run wild, and I often find my characters surprising me with new things I hadn't thought of before until they just pop out of my head while the words are flowing.

The problem though is that I quite often find myself needing more; whether it's more insight into the characters or more ways to develop and move the plot forward. 

So, when I spotted Jessica Adren Cline's Kickstarter campaign last year called, 'Tarot for Fiction Writers', which promised lots of creative and fun ways to use tarot to inspire and develop stories, I knew I wanted to try it. 

I actually ended up attending a workshop run by Jessica, hosted by Capitol Crimes, as part of the Kickstarter and it really sold me on the book and the concept because it was just so much fun. 

The general idea is that you do a tarot spread for something in your book that you need help with, like a character's backstory or a plot twist. You then use the imagery and/or meanings behind the tarot cards to create something from that. To me, it's a bit like giving your brain a fantasy jump start or nitros boost, while getting to play around with beautifully designed cards. 

Tarot for Fiction Writers, is fantastic in that it's just packed full of incredibly helpful things. The author starts out by giving you some reasoning behind the method and explaining how it all works, which is too much for me to expand on here.

She then gives you an absolute ton of prompts that you can use in your own writing. There's things like, drawing a card to add a surprising detail to your character's personality, or what problem does your character encounter in the next scene. 

But then she invites you to delve deeper into things by drawing cards to help you convey an abstract concept in more concrete detail or even drawing cards for every major story beat. 

There really seems to be something for every scenario. 

If that weren't enough, she then gives you a chapter on how to interpret the cards and a huge chapter that she calls The Storyteller's Tarot Reference Guide. This is my favourite chapter because, not only does she give you the basic meanings for each card, she also expands on that to give you things like what this card might mean in relation to your character, to the plot, to story conflict, and to relationship conflict. 

There's just so much in this book that I keep coming back to it again and again when I'm trying to get to know my characters a little better or get some inspiration for that plot hole that I can't seem to climb out of. 

When it comes to tarot cards, I've always been a little bit fascinated with them. A friend did a reading for me when I was in my late teens and I remember falling in love with how beautiful the artwork was and how intricate the designs were, and since then I really wanted a pack of my own. 

Fast forward to now and I have the three decks above, but I'm always looking to add to my collection. 

Happily, a new queer, witchy booshop, Hexenhaus, has opened in a town I visit often and they have soooo many gorgeous decks that I just know I'm going to be adding a few more to my collection when I next visit. 

I tend to keep the Ace of Cups card from the Dark Mansion Tarot deck on my desk (don't mind the one-eyed owl) because, funny story, the day I decided to self-publish my short story collection, Spellbound, I pulled this card randomly out of the deck. It means new beginnings, creativity, inspiration, and new opportunities, and couldn't be more fitting to the current stage in my life.

So, I keep it there as a reminder and as an attempt to manifest this life that I want for myself as a fantasy writer. 

Getting Tarot for Fiction Writers has really injected this new sense of whimsy and creative freedom into my writing process now. Instead of feeling frustrated and trapped when I've written myself into a corner or when I don't understand a character's motivation for doing something, I turn to a deck and have fun with one of the prompts or spreads. 

It really is a great way to generate ideas, develop existing ideas and just have some fantasy-style fun with my writing. 

Whether you consider yourself a writer or not (I didn't for the longest time), why not crab a tarot deck (there are free random card choosers online if you don't have a physical deck) and give it a try. Maybe start with something simple like a beginning, middle and end, 3-card draw to get you started on a short story or writing sprint.

I'd love to know how you get on.

​In future, I might share some of my tarot spreads here on the blog to reveal how they affected certain characters or stories, so if you enjoyed this post, do look out for those. 

Here's to a little magic and a lot of storytelling—one card at a time.

I’ve had this website and blog for a little while now but I haven’t used it much, aside from the podcast episodes. So, I figured it was about time I flexed my writing muscles for something other than my stories to share some insights into my life as a fantasy writer. 
​
I’ll share things like character profiles, exclusive scene snippets, deleted scenes, book recommendations and some behind-the-scenes sneak peeks into my writing process. 

To get us started, I’m also launching a new feature called, Currently Obsessed With... This is where I’ll be chatting about some of the weird and wonderful things I’m currently obsessed with, from fantasy video games and book series, to podcasts and TV shows. 

It’s just a fun way for me to share some of my many current obsessions with you lovely people. 

At the moment, I’m currently obsessed with…Baldur’s Gate 3!

This game has me HOOKED.

​Packed full of magic, chaos and morally questionable choices, it’s my perfect fantasy escape right now. Here are some of my favourite things about it...

I’m sure that if you hang out in the fantasy space on Bookstagram or BookTok, you’ve probably seen a reel or two that mentions Baldur’s Gate. Most of them seem to centre around one of the game’s original characters, Astarion, a suave and loveable rogue vampire, who, thanks to the incredible voice talents of Neil Newbon, is a huge fan favourite.

I first heard of this game before it was released in August 2023, and it’s the reason I own a PS5. I honestly didn’t really play video games a great deal before I had this one.
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I heard about it because I enjoy Dungeons & Dragons (the subject of a future Currently Obsessed With... post), and it was being talked about by lots of people who were really excited for the game, and as someone who plays Dungeons & Dragons as a GM (game master), running games for others, I really wanted the opportunity to play a character in a D&D game, and Baldur’s Gate 3 was that solution for me.

I’m currently on my second play through, because one of the many beauties of this game is that you can play it multiple times as different characters and enjoy a slightly different story each time.

The first time around, I created a half-orc paladin character (kind of like a knight with some divine powers) and tried to be a pretty moral character. Tried being the operative word their because it is so HARD to be purely good in BG3. Almost every choice you make, even the ones where you’re trying to be good, have some kind of consequence which just makes for a super interesting, fun, and completely unpredictable game.

For my second play through, which I’m enjoying a lot more than the first one, probably because I’m more familiar now with the game mechanics and how to do things than I was the first time around.

This time, my character isn’t as much of a goody two-shoes. As a halfling (think Hobbit, but without the hairy feet) bard with a background as a charlatan, she makes the right choices for herself and isn’t afraid to get her hands, or her sword, dirty.

I decided she should look a bit like Lagatha from Vikings, but with red hair. 😍 

This game is incredible for so many reasons:

- There’s so much you can do! Honestly, the game itself is huge and you can go pretty much anywhere, which paired with the character customisations and many dialogue options, really give you that unique storytelling feel each time you’re playing.

- The graphics are stunning! Honestly, the cut scenes are just graphically beautiful, making the storytelling even more intense and captivating. The settings and scenery, too, are just vast and grand with so much detail.

- The romancing! Did you ever play The Sims for the sole purpose of romancing your characters? (It can’t have just been me!) Well, this game is like that but the fantasy version on steroids, because the romance storylines are *chef’s kiss* 💋.

This time around, my character is romancing Karlach, who’s a giant fiery (literally) red Tiefling (humanoid creature with horns) who spent much of her life fighting in the Blood War in Hell. She’s a huge cinnamon roll and I just want to hug her in real life.

The romance options with Karlach so far have been both spicy and adorable, and so much fun to play.

This is all without the enormous cast of NPCs (non-player characters) including my very own pet dog and owlbear (what it sounds like), and a huge amount of side quests that run alongside the main storyline.

I could play this game forever, and truthfully, since I’ve clocked 113 hours since buying it, it wouldn’t surprise me if I did, and I’m still only around half of the way through the main storyline.

I typically have my games set to Storyteller mode since I’m not really into stressing myself out over winning fights, or collecting trophies, and much prefer focusing on the story itself. So far, it’s working as I am currently OBSESSED with...Baldur’s Gate 3.

Check out a few photos from my current game below and let me know what you think in the comments. Are you tempted to play Baldur’s Gate 3 or is it already one of your obsessions?
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I hope you’ve enjoyed this new post. Look out for more of my Currently Obsessed With... posts in the near future. 

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Welcome to episode 14 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. Today we're going to be chatting about all sorts of bookish things like big indie fantasy book giveaways, the Indieverse Awards 2025, a new bookish social media platform, and big changes at Amazon that affect books for readers and authors.

I'm also going to be chatting today about some of the books I've been reading since our last episode and sharing some of the books I've added to my TBR recently. I have a teeny amount of book news for you also from my own writing desk.

But before we jump into all of that, if you haven't already, please do hit subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to this podcast on so that you never miss an episode, and don't be afraid to recommend Turn the Page to your book loving friends, especially if you feel they need more indie books in their lives and let's face it, who doesn't?

So, pull up a comfy chair, grab your TBR journal or open your book tracking app and get ready for some new indie book recommendations.

So, after reading pretty much nothing in January, I'm very pleased to report that in February I have read some books.

Cue the Trumpets and Confetti Cannons. It may have had something to do with me resubscribing to Kindle Unlimited in a moment of weakness and reading into the wee hours every night when I should have been sleeping.

But despite being really tired, I've dipped my toes into all sorts of books since our last episode and I'm really excited to chat with you about them today.

So, the first book I've been reading this month is Living Legend by Allie Shante. This book arrived last month from the Butterfly Book Club, which is an indie book box based here in the UK.

The book is a paranormal fantasy romance about a demon trained by Lilith herself who's called from purgatory to help angels find out why a demon was able to enter their domain. I'm not a huge amount of the way through this book, but I'm liking it so far. The main character is sort of snarky and kind of an unreliable narrator.

Not really sure what her deal is yet. And then there's the angels who are actually not quite as clean cut as I thought they would have been. So, there's a bit of tension there and different things going on, but like I said, I'm not too far away into it, so I still need to figure out where this one's going.

If you like choose your own adventure books though, or Dungeons and Dragons, or you have kids who might like those, you might enjoy some other books that I've been reading which are Matt Beighton's Pick Your Path adventure books. It's sort of a mix between the two.

I picked up his free book to try with my ten-year-old and we both really loved it. You basically start by filling out a sort of character sheet which was free to download from the author's website, and then as you go through the book, choosing your path, you roll dice to try and do certain tasks and when you have monsters to fight or team up with allies.

It was a really fun way of using our D&D dice collection and reading a book that was also a game but could be read or played multiple times with each time being slightly different depending on your choices and dice rolls. So, that was a lot of fun.

My favourite book though that I read this month was Cancer Ships Aquarius by Anyta Sunday. Anyta Sunday is one of my favourite slow burn romance writers and this book is no exception. I have read this book before, but it's been a while, so it did feel sort of new and fresh as I had forgotten some things.

It's not a closed-door romance and it does feature explicit scenes, but what I love most about this book, and all of Anyta's books, are just the character pairings and the sheer cluelessness of the main characters when they don't realize, sort of, what's staring them in the face.

This one's a bit more emotional than some of the other books I've read by this author as it deals with the loss of a partner of one of the main characters and the loss of a parent of one of the secondary characters, so it's a very moving and touching story of loss and new beginnings.

The other book I picked up this month was not indie, but I am enjoying it. I honestly only picked it up because I saw a reel on Instagram where someone said that the book and one of the characters in it was extremely Astarian-coded. For those who don't know, Astarian is a very morally grey character from Baldur's Gate 3, which is a Dungeons and Dragons video game.

The book is called Phantasma by Kaylie Hart, and so far, it's almost exactly like Caraval in the setup and the premise, except that the main character is a necromancer and that it's set in New Orleans.

Like, honestly, it starts with two sisters, one shy and nervous, the other one a bit more outgoing and with her own secrets.

Their mother dies, and so one sister disappears into Phantasma, which is like the Hunger Games but run by devils, and set in the house from The Shining, at least how it appears in the Ready Player One movie, as I haven't actually seen or read The Shining.

The premise for Phantasma is: There are only two rules to the game, stay alive and don't fall in love.

So, obviously the first person our main character meets is a mysterious, incredibly handsome guy, because of course.

All of that being said, I am enjoying it so far. It's different enough now that things have kicked in that I'm very intrigued about what's going to happen next. Hopefully, it turns out to be very different to Caraval, which I'm sure it will given the ratings that it has, but we shall see. I have my fingers crossed.

But yeah, so I've read a few things this month, not as much as I would have liked, but I have dipped my toes into, sort of, different things. Hopefully there'll be more next month.

But what about you? As always, you can let me know what indie books you've been reading lately by writing to me at ttpindiepodcast@gmail.com or on Instagram and Threads @myendlessshelf.

Moving on then, I wanted to share with you some of the indie books that I've recently added to my TBR and that you may want to add to your own.

First up is The King's Man by Anyta Sunday. As I mentioned earlier, Anyta Sunday is one of my favourite MM romance authors because she just writes the most incredible slow burn with some of the best characters who are almost always oblivious to their feelings.

So, when I found out that she has strayed from her usual contemporary romance to writing an entire epic romantasy series, I added it to my TBR so incredibly fast.

The first book in the six-book series releases on May 13th and promises slow burn passion, courageous choices, and the relentless spirit of a healer determined to beat all odds.

The latest Indie Bites magazine issue is also out now. It's called Pirates and Prophecies, and features eight exclusive short fantasy stories.

According to the website, in this issue you will find foretold heroes and swashbuckling villains, cursed diadems and giant jellyfish, sibling bonds and budding love stories, and of course, a whole lot of treasure.

I love getting these magazines, these collections, each time they release a new one. They're just really great ways to, sort of, discover a bunch of new fantasy authors and they're also the perfect length to read in a short sitting. So, I don't usually have a lot of time to read, so being able to read a story in like less than an hour is just perfect for me. So, these are great for that.

A fun segue then from this also is that one of the co-editors and co-creators of the Indie Bites magazine, Josie Jaffrey, who we had on the podcast a few months ago, has a fun new podcast coming out based on her Seekers series, her Vampire series. So, this podcast is going to feature a full cast of voice actors, and the podcast itself will be a prequel to the Seekers series, which is really cool and something that I'm really looking forward to checking out because, as an indie author that's kind of a big deal, that's awesome. It's not something I've really heard of being done before, I mean anywhere traditionally or indie so that's something I'm really looking forward to.

I'm also really excited for Tess Carletta's upcoming Kickstarter which she's using to launch her next book Goldheart. If you remember my obsession with her debut, Kit & Basie, last year, it'll come as no surprise that I'm very excited for Tess's next book.

This is another mm romantasy featuring forbidden love, found family, and a plant-based magic system, which sounds really exciting. The Kickstarter launches on the 3rd of April and promises to be packed full of goodies for backers.

A couple of other books that I've added to my TBR this month are the Flaws of Gravity by Stephanie Caye. This is a fae Urban fantasy about a prickly heroine. playing both sides of a supernatural cold war. And then also One Dark Spark by Heather Hildenbrand, which is about an intern at the world's only supernatural library, whose job it is to make sure nothing inside a book gets out, but of course, something does.

This one's giving me The Library of the Unwritten Vibes, which is one of my favourites. So, I'm excited to check that one out. I've got high hopes for that.

Last but not least, I received the February Fantasy Book Box from the Butterfly Book Club this month. It's another urban fantasy called Glimmer of the Other by Heather G. Harris. This book has seriously good reviews, so I'm hoping it lives up to the hype.

The main character is Jinx. She's a private investigator who's trying to track down her parents’ killers while working other cases, when suddenly she's shoved into a realm where magic is real, and her dog is a hellhound.

So, it promises to be a fast paced, laugh out loud story with heart, humour, and fade to black, slow burn romance, and it's the first book in the Other Realms series.

The special edition's really cool. It has really nice digital sprayed edges, or digitally printed edges. It's got an exclusive dust jacket and hardcover underneath. Yeah, really pretty.

One last thing that I'm really looking forward to next month, it's not a book, but it is book related, is a new video game called Split Fiction.

If you haven't watched the trailer for this yet but you've enjoyed games like Baldur's Gate 3 and It Takes Two, I highly, highly recommend that you go and check it out.

So, the premise of the game is that it's about two writers, who end up getting trapped in a simulation that brings their story ideas to life. Already it sounds incredibly cool, but then when you add in that the simulation is run by an evil tech company trying to steal their ideas, no parallels there whatsoever, and that due to a glitch they end up sharing a simulation that makes you jump between a fictional universe and a sci-fi universe, sorry, a fantasy universe and a sci-fi universe. Honestly, it just sounds amazing.

It's been made by the same company that makes It Takes Two, which is in my opinion, the best co-op game. I mean, it's the best co-op game I've ever played. So, to say that I'm excited for this game would be an understatement.

Anyway, it comes out in March, so if it sounds like your cup of tea, go and check out the trailer and let me know what you think because I am super excited. I mean, to play as a writer in a video game and to get to, sort of, explore those different worlds just, ah, it sounds so much fun.

I also just wanted to quickly let you know that Spellbound, my fantasy short story collection, is now available in more eBook stores. As well as Amazon, Kobo, and Kobo Plus, you can now find it on Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and Smashwords.

So, if you'd like to check it out, it should be available to you in most eBook stores. More information about that can be found on my website kaymweston.com.

From the writing cave, my cozy fantasy project is starting to take shape a little more now, and I'm making a bit more time to write each week.

I've actually changed my process with this one, I'm usually sort of a pantser and just kind of write as I go. This one felt like it really needed some outlining, I kept writing myself into corners. So yeah, I've taken a step back with that, kind of plotted it out a bit more, and I'm much happier with the direction that I'm going with that now.

I'm also writing some Dungeons & Dragons game stuff for a couple of games I run for friends and for my kiddo's friends, so that's a lot of fun and has really got my creative mind just flowing a bit more.

My paranormal fantasy novel has undergone some changes. It's not going to be as much of a closed-door fantasy as previously planned, but we'll have a little bit more spice. I'm also changing some of the plot as there were certain elements and aspects that I just felt were missing. So, that's been pushed back just a little bit while I make it better.

I do think it's worth the delay, but hopefully it won't be too much longer before it's off to the editor and then available to buy.

I've also booked some bookish trips for this coming year, which I'm really excited about. So, first up, I'll be in London in a couple of weeks to attend the Alliance of Independent Authors member party at the London Book Fair. They are always a lot of fun. ALLi are running a few interesting panels for indie authors, so if any authors are listening, you might want to check those out.

I'll be in London for just a day, so hoping to check out some bookish spots while I'm there too.

Then later in March, I'm off to Keswick in the Lake District for a weekend of just soaking in the scenery while reading and writing, so I really can't wait for that. I last visited Keswick when I was at university, so it's been a while and I'm really excited to go back.

I'm also hoping that there'll be a trip to Hay on Wye, which is the book village in Wales, before the end of spring as well. So, I definitely have lots to look forward to there.

Speaking of things to look forward to, there's a big indie fantasy book giveaway that's launching on February 28th, so tomorrow, as of when this podcast goes out.

The site to visit is stuffwithfantasy.com. You can find them on Instagram as well, at @stuffwithfantasy.

This is the first time I've heard of this event, and to be clear, I'm not affiliated with it in any way. I'm not a participating author. I've not even downloaded a book from them before. It just looks like a great opportunity to discover a large range of fantasy books and authors, indie fantasy books and authors.

Basically, it just runs for one day, and all of the books are either free or heavily discounted, so if you're looking to stuff your Kindle or other eReader, do go and check that out. It looks like a great way to just, you know, get a load of free books, basically.

Speaking of Kindle though, Amazon have been in the news lately because they've changed their purchasing terms when it comes to buying eBooks, and it's a change that a lot of people are not happy about.

So, basically Amazon have now removed the ability for readers to download eBooks that they've purchased from Amazon onto other devices, so i.e. to back them up elsewhere or to read them offline, or not on a Kindle.

Coinciding with this, they've also changed their eBook licensing terms to make it clear that when you buy an eBook from Amazon, what you're actually doing is buying a license to that eBook instead of buying the file itself.

While to many this doesn't sound like a big change, and I've seen so many people ranting and raving about this in one way or another, and a lot of places already do this, like Audible for example.

But what it means is that Amazon can remove a license to a book that you've purchased, meaning that one day you could open up your Kindle to read a book and find that it's suddenly disappeared. So, you know, imagine on Netflix, you've found a show that you wanted to watch, you've put it off for a while, you've gone back to watch it, it's no longer there, the license has expired.

Now, I've had this happen to me before on Audible, I purchased a series of books on there, you know, I thought I'd purchased the actual books themselves, a year or so later I went back to read them, and they'd gone from my library. Even the purchase record for the titles had gone from my account, so I didn't have any proof that I'd purchased them in the first place, even though I'm a thousand percent certain that I did.

In my opinion, this is a really shitty move, and as both reader and author, it doesn't feel like a good thing from Amazon. I'm actually wondering if it'll change how readers and authors buy and sell books moving forward.

Maybe we'll see an increase in buying physical books instead of digital so you actually get to keep that copy on your shelf, or maybe readers will be more inclined to go direct to author websites where they can purchase the actual file, download it to whatever reader they want, and it will never go away. So, who knows? But yeah, it's not the best news from Amazon. I know it's something that a lot of places do already, and I think a lot of people thought that this was how Amazon were doing things anyway with eBooks. It wasn't, but it is now. But yeah, I'd love to know your opinions on this. I know the debate is rife right now. So, we'll see how things go.

But in good news though for indie authors and readers, the Indieverse Book Awards are back for 2025, and the nominees have been announced for this year. Yay! I can't actually believe that it's already been a year since the awards were launched last year.

Again, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, I just think that they're a fantastic way of showcasing indie authors, and a great way for readers to discover new indie books and to also get involved in the voting process.

It feels very much like a community-focused awards program which isn't really a thing anywhere else, as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

But I've never heard of an awards program like this before, where readers get to actually, other than the Goodreads Awards, sorry, where readers actually really get to get involved and choose, you know, nominate the titles that they want and then read the books and choose who they think should win.

If you want to find out more about the awards, do go and check out last year's episode where I chatted with Indieverse Awards founder Kristina Carmela. She came along to talk about the awards and how readers can get involved.

There are tons of nominations this year. They all sound equally fascinating with lots of great categories. You can find all of those at indiverseawards.com and start adding to your TBR.

As well as things like Best Fantasy Book, Best Romance Book, etc, they also have categories for things like just plain old vibes, like Coziest Small Town and Book That Gives Me Goosebumps, so there's definitely lots to choose from.

Voting for the 2025 awards will begin in November, so you have until then to read as many of the books as you like. Again, like I said, it's a great way to just pack your TBR full of new recommendations and to try and check out as many indie authors over the year as possible.

They'll also be running giveaways, competitions, author talks, and lots of other cool things like that, so it's a fun thing to be involved in.

In other news, I recently heard about a new bookish social media app called Tome. I have created an account there to see if it's any good. They don't have an app, as far as I'm aware, so that for me is a little bit annoying, because there's only a web page, but I haven't really had much time to play around and get familiar with it just yet. So, if you have any tips to help me get started or make the most of it, please do help an elder millennial out.

Hopefully, they'll have an app soon if it gains some traction, if it becomes popular. Like I said, I don't know much about the functionality or how it works as to whether that will happen, but we definitely need some more social media options, I think, with the state of things. Yeah, it's becoming a bit sketchy out there, let's just say.

So, yeah, anything new that provides us some alternatives is a good thing in my book.

Before I wrap up this episode, I just wanted to let you know that, unfortunately, there won't be an Indie Author chat this month. Schedules just didn't allow for it, which is why this episode's a little bit longer than usual. But we will have a special guest next month, so do tune in for that.

And that's all for this episode of Turn the Page, the Indie Book Podcast.

Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll be back soon with more indie book recommendations and our next special Indie Author guest.
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Until then, happy reading and keep turning the page.​

Welcome to episode 13 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast. 

In this episode, I'm joined by Shana Frost, author of romantic suspense novels including the Aileen and Callan Murder Mystery series. 

Shana shares her journey from being a management accountant in India to writing gripping mysteries set in Glasgow and the Scottish Highlands.

​Tune in to hear about her creative process, why diversity and found family themes resonate in her work, and her love for blending suspense with romance.

Plus, Shana shares an update on what she's working on right now, which of her characters she'd love to take on a romantic weekend away, and her top 3 indie author recommendations. 

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Welcome to episode 13 of Turn the Page: The Indie Book Podcast.
Today, I'm joined by Shana Frost. Shana Frost writes romantic mysteries as dramatic as the Scottish Highlands that inspire her. In every book, Shana shares the values she truly believes in: hope, justice, and love. Throughout her novels, you'll encounter a variety of characters all sharing their unique stories.

Always infused with a wee dram of the Scottish landscape and culture, Shana's stories take readers from Glasgow's gritty streets to the enigmatic Highlands.

She promises that when reading her stories, you'll be at the edge of your seat, falling deeper in love with the characters.

Okay, so to get us started then, can you introduce yourself to our listeners, tell us a bit about your journey as a writer, and what your books are all about?

Shana Frost: I'm Shana Frost. I write romantic suspense books that are based in Scotland. As you can hear from my voice, I'm not from Scotland, I'm from India.

But Glasgow, which is in Scotland, is my adopted home. So, I'm enamoured by this country, and I write books that are based here. The three things you will always find in my books are romance, suspense, and Scotland. So, my books are based around those three things. They always have a message of hope at the end, and you'll find found family as a very common theme in the books as well. So, that's me and that's what I write.

I have around seven books in a series called the Aileen and Callan Murder Mystery Series, which are romantic mysteries based in a small town in the Northwestern Highlands. Now, I'm writing a romantic suspense book that is based in Glasgow, which is where I stay, and I'm quite excited by this new series because it's all going to be based in Glasgow, and particularly in a place in Glasgow called the Merchant City area. So, that's what I'm doing.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, let's just go back to moving from India to Scotland, first of all.

Obviously, that must have been such a big cultural shift for you. So, what was that experience like and how has it shaped your writing?

Shana Frost: So, I actually moved here to do a master's in creative writing, and I was kind of daunted by the prospect of moving, not just to another country, but to do a master's, because it was that I had to actually perform, because I hadn't ever studied in the arts before.

I am actually a management accountant by profession. So, it was the shift of my brain going from numbers to words, and it was a big difference for me, that shift. And I was a bit scared because, I mean, you're moving to another country, you don't know anybody in this new place, but what I found Glasgow to be was a very, very welcoming place. People are really friendly and everyone's always up to having a good chat with you. So, I instantly, once I moved, it was like, this is amazing, and I've not actually left the city since then.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, is it the people of Scotland that have sort of influenced your stories as well then?

Shana Frost: It is. So, initially it was just that I had visited Scotland in 2015, and I fell in love with the place. So, it was actually the place and the scenery and the history that actually got me interested. But since I've moved, it's been the Glaswegian people who have made me think about society and how people can be friendly, despite you being from different backgrounds.

So, that's what inspires me to write the books that I'm writing today.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. So, I take it you enjoy words more than the numbers?

Shana Frost: Oh, definitely. I think I finished my professional degree, and I said, that's enough. I think I'm done.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I've had enough of numbers, I don't want to see them again.

Yeah, I suppose that's the only downside of being an indie author though, is you still have to do the numbers.

Shana Frost: Yes, I think so, yeah. I mean, it's a nice way to use my business brain, but then keep it at the door and go back to writing. So, it feels like a good balance here.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, it's a good point. So, obviously your first series is set in the Scottish Highlands, but you moved to Glasgow. What made you choose the Highlands for the first series?

Shana Frost: It was just the scenery and the beauty of the place, and it kind of felt like it was far away for me to imagine. So, even in the highlands, the entire series is based in a fictional town called Loch Fuar.

Because I was in India at that time and I was imagining these things, and I wasn't really sure how things happened on a day-to-day basis in the highlands, but I felt it was a nice faraway place to write a series in, but not something that's actually real and tangible for people to compare.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, do you think now that you've moved to Scotland, has your perspective changed and does that offer a unique perspective for readers of your books as someone who has moved?

Shana Frost: Actually, yes. Can I tell you a small story?

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Absolutely.

Shana Frost: Yeah. So, actually, when I was doing my master's, we had to do a dissertation novel, and I decided to do the next book in my previous series. But my supervisor said that he wanted me to write something new, and because when I had first moved, I decided I want to learn more about writing romantic suspense and romantic stories. So, he told me, write a new book.

These two characters had come to mind, and I thought, okay, I'll do that, and I'll base them in Glasgow. But what I had noticed is this new series is much grittier. It's much more, I'm hoping, colloquially correct.

When I was writing books that were based in the Highlands, it was a sort of romantic view of life in Scotland, so it was much more mellow, there weren't many curse words in it. People were good to each other; it was a cozy vibe that I was writing in. But since I've moved to Glasgow, I feel it's a quilt of people from different backgrounds, the way they speak, the way they behave, the way they are, and I wanted to show that in my books. Because Glasgow is not just another city that is cozy.

I mean, it's one of the friendliest cities in the world, but at one point it was also the murder capital of Europe. When I heard that, I was like, this is interesting because I feel that's what Glasgow is like. So, I wanted to get that in the book. So, this new series that I've written after I've moved is much grittier, it's darker, and it's got good curse words in it. It's the dark side of life and also the good side of life that I've tried in these books.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's brilliant. So, your books, as you've mentioned, combine romance and murder mystery, suspense. What inspired you to blend those genres together and not just, sort of, stick to one path?

Shana Frost: As a child, I used to love reading Nancy Drews and Hardy Boys and then moved on to Hercule Poirot and Sherlock Holmes. Then when I was a teenager, I found romance as a genre, and I thought, oh, this is fun. So, then I read a lot of Nora Roberts and so many indie books in that area, and it wasn't until I think 2019 that I found a romantic suspense book, and I thought this is incredible because it's mixing my two favourite genres in every single book. So, I've been hooked onto it ever since.

The other day, my friend told me that if she ever thought of buying a book for me, it's going to be impossible because she doesn't know anything about the genre, but that's all I read.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. You mentioned earlier that diversity is quite important for you and found family as a big theme in your characters and in your books, why is it important to you to represent, not just found family, but also a diverse, wide range of characters and experiences?

Shana Frost: I think as a person who is from India, who has moved to Glasgow, I feel like I have a perspective on the life here that is different from somebody who's grown up here.

So, my friend group here, for example, is really diverse and varied. They're from different parts of the world, and at the face of it, we might not have many things in common, but when we start talking about books or writing, it's all the same because we blend together like that, and I feel found family, sometimes people think is people who are similar that they come together, but I found that diversity because that's our society today. It's so diverse, brings together a nice melting pot and a good cultural mix of ideas that I'm really fascinated by.

So, I like to write people who are different, who are diverse, and who might not actually find themselves in society per se or in media, and think that they're different. So, I'm giving them a voice in a way.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's lovely. I mean, at the end of the day, life isn't black and white, people aren't all the same, so I absolutely love diversity in everything I read. So, that's great. That's brilliant.

So, just before I move on to the next question, just could you give us a brief overview of the first book in your Highlands series, just to give people an idea of what they're getting into if they start that series?

Shana Frost: Sure. So, the book starts with an amateur sleuth called Aileen McKinnon, who has ditched her life in Glasgow and moved to the Highlands. So, she used to be a forensic accountant, and she's sick of that job and she's moved to the Highlands to run her grandmother's inn. So, she moves there, she finds that the inn is in absolute mess. She gets the inn done up and then has guests coming over, until one guest drops dead.

So, she's having a fledgling inn on her hands and a murder that has happened in the inn, and she thinks that if the local detective inspector doesn't do a good job, this will be the end of her life in the Highlands. So, she gets involved, the detective inspector is not happy with her, but he's a hot hunk, and sparks fly immediately, whether they're angry sparks or romantic sparks, that is for people to judge.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Okay, brilliant. I'm assuming that relationship sort of develops over the course of the series or maybe changes in different ways?

Shana Frost: Yes, so they start off as enemies, then they become sort of friends and partners that barely tolerate each other, and then they fall head over heels with each other. So yeah, that's what it is.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's lovely. I love that you have sort of that iconic romantic setup, especially with the whole moving to a different place, starting a rundown inn, and it starts off with that beautiful, cozy fantasy feel, and then straight away, murder, dead bodies, and I love that, that's such a great twist. There are definitely parallels between you and the main character, I see, also.

Shana Frost: Yes, a lot of them, yeah.

I think my mum was reading the sixth book in the series where her parents come to visit her, and my mum told me, is this how you feel when we visit you?

Kay M. Weston (she/her): I take it that the character wasn't best impressed when the parents came to visit?

Shana Frost: Probably should have said that. Yeah, no, she wasn't.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Okay, fantastic. So, obviously you're an indie author. What drew you then to indie publishing in the first place, and what has that journey been like for you?

Shana Frost: I actually started writing blogs when I was 13 and publishing them on my own website. So, when I graduated to writing novels, I never actually thought about going trade published.

Indie was the word for me, so I started doing research on Indie publishing and I loved it more and more. Like I said, it blends my business brain with my creative brain, so it's a really nice setup for me, and so that was one of the reasons why I went indie.

The other reason why I really like indie is because of the control, and the direct communication I can have with my readers, because I hear what they say, and I put that in my books, or I remove that from my books, and I like that dialogue between me and my readers that's always there for me, which I don't think I would have had if I had gone trade published.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, so reader feedback's just really crucial to the way that you do things?

Shana Frost: Yes, it is. It's more than feedback, it's their encouragement. If they enjoy something, I feel like I should write more, because when I don't have that, I just stop writing. So, for me, it's my muse in a way.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): And how have you found indie publishing from the get-go then? So, a lot of people look at different options and they realize that indie publishing is the best option for them or something else, but obviously you never even considered traditional publishing in the first place.

So, how have you found it sort of getting the word out about your books and marketing them, which is usually the hardest thing as well, isn't it, to do?

Shana Frost: Yes, marketing is a really hard game.

I feel it is a game because it's always changing and you never know what will work, what will not work. So, marketing is one of the challenges that I face, but I still would take that challenge over anything else that I would have in the trade publishing world, because as we see in ALLi, for example, people do get deals, but it's still up to them to do the marketing and you don't have many things under your own control.

So, for me, marketing is just another extension of creativity because you're writing this book, you know this book from the inside out, and then you have to communicate why somebody would want to read that book. So, I just feel that that's just the same stream, in a way, it's not something that's different, if that makes sense.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. You mentioned there, ALLi, which for anyone who doesn't know, is the Alliance of Independent Authors. What is it you do at ALLi, Shana? Can you let people know?

Shana Frost: I am the publications manager for ALLi. So, I take care of all the books that we publish for authors and for indie authors specifically. So, books like marketing, how to get reviews, promotion books, creative self-publishing. That's what I work on, on a day-to-day basis, for ALLi.
Kay M. Weston (she/her): Brilliant. So, supporting indies as well as being one yourself.

Shana Frost: Yes.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): And obviously indie publishing has given you an opportunity recently. You did a Kickstarter campaign for your last book in your Highland series. That was a great success, I believe, and it was obviously a huge achievement. So, what motivated you to try crowdfunding in the first place, and what lessons did you sort of learn along the way?

Shana Frost: Crowdfunding has become a big thing for authors, and I wanted to give it a shot to see how things happen. I also wanted to create a beautiful book in this series that I'm writing, because it was the seventh book in the series, and it's the penultimate book. So, I had this idea of doing beautiful illustrations and putting together a lovely special edition. So, it was an experiment, this Kickstarter, to see how my readers would react and how I would be able to handle the whole situation.

So, it was really fun. It was successful, but it was a lot of work for the three weeks. So, at the end of the three weeks, I was absolutely tired, and I'm still doing the fulfilment. So, while it was a big success, personally for me, I'm not sure I would do another Kickstarter. But it was a good experience, I think, in seeing how I can speak to my readers and which of my readers were really interested in what I was offering.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, and, I mean, it was an absolutely lovely book. I would recommend everyone to go and have a look at it at least because it's gorgeous.

Shana Frost: Thanks so much.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): It is one of those things, isn't it, Kickstarter? I mean, I've only released, as you know, just like a tiny, tiny little collection, but I keep looking at Kickstarter thinking, I just want a beautiful, pretty version of my book.

So, I keep looking at it and thinking, would anyone buy this?

Shana Frost: Yeah, I think going into Kickstarter, it's very important that you have a different goal than just the funding goal. For me, I wanted to see, first of all, how it worked. Secondly, to see how the response would be and if people would be interested.

So, people were interested, and the response was great, but I didn't notice how much work would be behind it, and how much time it would take, you know, energy wise put into it. So, it kind of took away from the actual creative side of things for me a bit more. So, it was a lot of marketing, a lot of promotion, but I was spending time doing that more than just writing.

So, it didn't work that way.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, it's a good lesson learned though.

Shana Frost: Yes, definitely, yeah. It's one of the things in indie publishing, you need to keep trying, but some things will work, some things won't. So, then you pivot. So, it's always a fun, interesting way to publish, I think.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, and the beauty of it is, as you say, at the moment, you say, oh, I don't think I'll do it again.

You never know. In future, you might think, actually, for this particular book or this particular thing, I really want to do it again. So, it may come back.

Shana Frost: Yeah, this time next year, I think I'll be like singing praises for the Kickstarter.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Definitely. So, just a fun question, just quickly. If you could take any one of your characters on a sort of camping weekend tour around the Scottish Highlands, who would you choose and why, and where would you take them?

Shana Frost: Ooh, I would take Callan on a date 'cause he's a hot hunk, as I like to say, and also, I think he'll be better equipped to survive the weather outside, 'cause I have no camping experience. I would like to go to the Outer Hebrides if possible.

It's a beautiful place there, but I've actually never been, so maybe the Isle of Tiree or something. Maybe not right now, maybe in the summer would be a better time.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): It's on my bucket list, actually. I want to go whale watching there because it's meant to be amazing.

But yeah, so you've written yourself a book boyfriend, is what you've done.

So, okay. Can you recommend three indie books for our readers? I'm always trying to promote other authors as well on here, so that would be awesome.

Shana Frost: Oh, there are a lot of authors that I could pick from, but I would say my favourite indies are Tony Anderson, Rachel Grant, and Janie Crouch.

They all write Romantic Suspense, they're all indies, and they do a great job.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's brilliant. Thank you so much.

Before we wrap up, can you share a little bit more about what's next for you? You mentioned you're working on your new series. Do you have any other upcoming projects or books as well that we should keep an eye out for? And just tell us a little bit more about what the first book in the new series is about.

Shana Frost: Yes. So, my new series is a romantic suspense that is based in Glasgow. It's called Scottish Investigators Glasgow. This new book, the title of the book is Between the Lies. So, it's a story of a recently widowed police constable, Robert Mueller, who falls in love with his wife's killer.
Yeah, it's a bit of a twist in there. So, that's what the premise is. The killer is a journalist called Nina Banerjee and she's from India, who's moved to Glasgow.

She's been here for a while, and so she is suspected of killing this woman. So, that's the premise of that story.

I'm also writing a novella in that same series called Strangers in Crime, which is also about a good cop and a criminal coming together and spending a night together and then dealing with the consequences of that. So, that's the new series. They're all going to be based in Glasgow.

For this year, though, I'm also writing the last book in my Aileen and Callan series, which is based in the Highlands. It'll be the end of that series, so I'm assuming it's going to be an emotional roller coaster to ride that book. But it'll be fun to wrap it up and, you know, to say goodbye to those characters, in a way.

So, that book is going to be released in July. This new series, Strangers in Crime and Between the Lies, the two books in this new series are going to be released on Valentine's Day and the next one on 28th of March, but that'll be on my website exclusively only.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Oh, brilliant. Just tell us what your website is so that everyone knows.

Shana Frost: Yes, so it's shanafrost.com/betweenthelies, so if you just google that you'll find the book on the website.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great, and I'm loving the new parallels between you and your new main character, except I really hope that you aren't a murderer.

Shana Frost: No, I'm not, even though my friends keep joking that I am.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yeah, your web browser search history probably suggests that you are.
Shana Frost: It's scary. Yeah, it's scary. I think there's just a part of you in each character and there's always parallels to be drawn.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): Yes, definitely, and I love that yours are so unique as well. Like we talked about already, you've got that really unique perspective of someone who's moved countries, you've immersed yourself in this new culture, but also brought so much of your own, and I think it's really fascinating to get your perspective, and your worldview brought through these characters, that's great.

Shana Frost: Yes, it's fun. It'll be fun.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): So, you've already said that people can find you on your website. Could you let us know where we can find you on social as well?

Shana Frost: I'm on Instagram at @shanafrostauthor. I keep my social media presence very small. So, if people want to get in touch with me, I'm happy to have a chat with them. If they can email me at shana@shanafrost.com, I'd love to talk to them.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): That's great. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about that I haven't asked you?

Shana Frost: Ooh, not really. This was fun though.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): It has. It's been great fun. It's been really fun to have a catch up and it's been great to learn more about your books and your writing and everything else. So, that's amazing. Thank you so much for this.

Shana Frost: Thanks so much for having me on. This has been amazing.

It was really fun, yeah.

Kay M. Weston (she/her): And if you ever want to come back on in future, you're very welcome.
Shana Frost: I would love to.
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Kay M. Weston (she/her): All right. Have a great week and thank you again.